[gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Caleb Tennis]

I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments to GWN
stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work, but for the ease
of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up a GWN section on the forums
and post the text of the GWN (or perhaps each section) in a new thread
each week and allow users to write comments.  I think opening up this
venue of feedback would let users more readily tell us what they're
interested in, and it would allow GWN contributors/editors/etc to see some
of the fruits of their labors.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Caleb

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Patrick Lauer]

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On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 07:37 -0400, Caleb Tennis wrote:
> I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments to GWN
> stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
(Ab)using a blog for that might work

>  but for the ease
> of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up a GWN section on the forums
> and post the text of the GWN (or perhaps each section) in a new thread
> each week and allow users to write comments.
Sounds like a good idea. 

>   I think opening up this
> venue of feedback would let users more readily tell us what they're
> interested in, and it would allow GWN contributors/editors/etc to see some
> of the fruits of their labors.
> 
> Any comments?
+1 from me

Patrick
-- 
Stand still, and let the rest of the universe move

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Tobias Klausmann]

Hi! 

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Caleb Tennis wrote:
> I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments
> to GWN stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
> but for the ease of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up
> a GWN section on the forums and post the text of the GWN (or
> perhaps each section) in a new thread each week and allow users
> to write comments.  I think opening up this venue of feedback
> would let users more readily tell us what they're interested
> in, and it would allow GWN contributors/editors/etc to see some
> of the fruits of their labors.
> 
> Any comments?

Principally, I agree (though I'd also rather go with the blog
approach as Patrick suggested). One point though: commenting only
being possible after registration may cut down on the spam (both
commercial and vandalism), but it also raises the bar for
legitimate comments. 

I'm not saying there should be no hurdle, it's just that it
should be thought of/decided beforehand.

Regards,
Tobias

-- 
You don't need eyes to see, you need vision.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[George Prowse]

On 19/06/06, Tobias Klausmann <klausman@schwarzvogel.de> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Caleb Tennis wrote:
> > I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments
> > to GWN stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
> > but for the ease of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up
> > a GWN section on the forums and post the text of the GWN (or
> > perhaps each section) in a new thread each week and allow users
> > to write comments.  I think opening up this venue of feedback
> > would let users more readily tell us what they're interested
> > in, and it would allow GWN contributors/editors/etc to see some
> > of the fruits of their labors.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
> Principally, I agree (though I'd also rather go with the blog
> approach as Patrick suggested). One point though: commenting only
> being possible after registration may cut down on the spam (both
> commercial and vandalism),

You have to register for a forums as well (usually) and if it were
made part of Gentoo's forums then there would be no need for extra
moderators.

> but it also raises the bar for legitimate comments.

Again, the thread system of forums allows for easier viewing of comments.

> I'm not saying there should be no hurdle, it's just that it
> should be thought of/decided beforehand.
>
> Regards,
> Tobias

Personally I think discussions in a wiki get more difficult the longer
the discussion carries on, also i think the ability to get an email
after comments have been made on a thread is a *big* advantage over
the wiki style.

It would be easier to clean up and cut down on vandalism because GWN
contributors and authors could have an ability to moderate said forum
and delete threads once they have been used or discarded.

George
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Alec Warner]

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Hash: SHA1

Tobias Klausmann wrote:
> Hi! 
> 
> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Caleb Tennis wrote:
>> I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments
>> to GWN stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
>> but for the ease of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up
>> a GWN section on the forums and post the text of the GWN (or
>> perhaps each section) in a new thread each week and allow users
>> to write comments.  I think opening up this venue of feedback
>> would let users more readily tell us what they're interested
>> in, and it would allow GWN contributors/editors/etc to see some
>> of the fruits of their labors.
>>
>> Any comments?
> 
> Principally, I agree (though I'd also rather go with the blog
> approach as Patrick suggested). One point though: commenting only
> being possible after registration may cut down on the spam (both
> commercial and vandalism), but it also raises the bar for
> legitimate comments. 
> 
> I'm not saying there should be no hurdle, it's just that it
> should be thought of/decided beforehand.
> 
> Regards,
> Tobias
> 

CAPTCHA

Registering should be possible but not required :x
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Marius Mauch]

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On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:00:19 +0200
Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 07:37 -0400, Caleb Tennis wrote:
> > I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments to
> > GWN stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
> (Ab)using a blog for that might work

Should definitely use existing resources, so forums or planet, I think
forums might work better due to a larger userbase, but that's just my
impression (I don't think we have any reliable metric for planet usage).

Marius

-- 
Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Tobias Klausmann]

Hi! 

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, George Prowse wrote:
> >> I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments
> >> to GWN stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
> >> but for the ease of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up
> >> a GWN section on the forums and post the text of the GWN (or
> >> perhaps each section) in a new thread each week and allow users
> >> to write comments.  I think opening up this venue of feedback
> >> would let users more readily tell us what they're interested
> >> in, and it would allow GWN contributors/editors/etc to see some
> >> of the fruits of their labors.
> >>
> >> Any comments?
> >
> >Principally, I agree (though I'd also rather go with the blog
> >approach as Patrick suggested). One point though: commenting only
> >being possible after registration may cut down on the spam (both
> >commercial and vandalism),
> 
> You have to register for a forums as well (usually) and if it were
> made part of Gentoo's forums then there would be no need for extra
> moderators.

Okay, I put it a bit strangely. What I meant was that a blog does
not need registration (if it has sufficient anti-spam measures).
A forum usually does.

> >but it also raises the bar for legitimate comments.
> 
> Again, the thread system of forums allows for easier viewing of comments.

Easier than a blog? I beg to differ. Does a forum have an RSS
feed I can subscribe to? A blog puts more emphasis on the order
of articles (in time) than a forum does. So I'm leaning towards a
blog.

> >I'm not saying there should be no hurdle, it's just that it
> >should be thought of/decided beforehand.
> 
> Personally I think discussions in a wiki get more difficult the longer
> the discussion carries on, also i think the ability to get an email
> after comments have been made on a thread is a *big* advantage over
> the wiki style.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting using a wiki. One probably could make a
wiki work the way needed here, but I think using a blog (or
forums) is far easier.

> It would be easier to clean up and cut down on vandalism because GWN
> contributors and authors could have an ability to moderate said forum
> and delete threads once they have been used or discarded.

Well, moderators on a blog could do that too: most blogs allow
comments to be closed for articles older than a set number of
months/weeks.

Regards,
Tobias
-- 
You don't need eyes to see, you need vision.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 11:12:21AM +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote:
> Okay, I put it a bit strangely. What I meant was that a blog does
> not need registration (if it has sufficient anti-spam measures).
> A forum usually does.

> Well, moderators on a blog could do that too: most blogs allow
> comments to be closed for articles older than a set number of
> months/weeks.

Not commenting if/what we should do [1], but we have a sufficient
userbase and moderators on the forums to deal with spam and other
annoyances quite quickly. For a reference, take a look in our
Dustbin [2] ;-)

[1] I can't comment on this for the GWN team in any way, nor have i
talked to the other forum people yet, but if requested i think this
would be possible.
[2] http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-48.html

cheers,
        Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 11:32:39PM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
> CAPTCHA

Unluckily Captchas don't solve all problems. Don't remember who it
was, but someone recently showed me a link to a page describing which
captchas can easily be broken by automated tools. Iirc the summary
was, that the only good captchas are those that are pretty hard to
solve for humans, too.
That doesn't mean they don't do a good job or something, but they
won't be able to solve all problems.

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Anders Hellgren]

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On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Wernfried Haas wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 11:32:39PM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
>> CAPTCHA
>
> Unluckily Captchas don't solve all problems. Don't remember who it
> was, but someone recently showed me a link to a page describing which
> captchas can easily be broken by automated tools. Iirc the summary
> was, that the only good captchas are those that are pretty hard to
> solve for humans, too.
> That doesn't mean they don't do a good job or something, but they
> won't be able to solve all problems.

You're thinking of PWNtcha. The site [1] does not respond for me currently 
so you may want to check out the google cache.

[1] http://sam.zoy.org/pwntcha/

/Anders
- -- 
Anders Hellgren (kallamej)
Gentoo Forums Administrator
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[gentoo-dev] Re: GWN Comments

[Wiktor Wandachowicz]

Patrick Lauer <patrick <at> gentoo.org> writes:

> > I'd like to propose some form of ability to post user comments to GWN
> > stories.  I suppose a full blown CMS system would work,
> (Ab)using a blog for that might work

Well, the Gentoo Forums users are already used to its commenting system.
Especially with the BBCode in place, which allows a nice formatting of
the messages. Blog is a different thing with different rules.
Who would like to administer that?

> >  but for the ease
> > of time I'm suggesting that perhaps we open up a GWN section on the forums
> > and post the text of the GWN (or perhaps each section) in a new thread
> > each week and allow users to write comments.
> Sounds like a good idea. 

This is a COOL idea! A "global" forum with a text-only copy of current GWN
would enable more users to actually read it. And adding comments would be
even more beneficial. I think that it would be best to place it near the top
of forums listing, like this:

-----
Assistance
-----
News & Announcements
Read this before submitting your first post to any forum
-----
Gentoo Weekly News
The GWN summarizes the key events in the Gentoo project each week.
This forum contains a copy of
-----
...

Adding a sticky thread that explains what GWN is, where it is located [1] and
where to get an RSS feed for GWN [2] would be quite fine too. The only problem
could be to prevent creating topics in this forum by regular users, and giving
the ability to post comments only.

Additionally, a script for automatically converting GWN to the forums BBCode
format, with a link to the original version (with pictures, mostly) would
probably be needed as well. This would be similar to the existing GLSA
announcements [3] (GLSA's are both sent via e-mail and posted to the forums
right now).


I'm positively sure that it wouldn't be that much work, with the obvious
benefit for the users. More forum posters would definitely read GWN this way,
because, frankly, not every Gentoo user is subscribed to the GWN newsletter.
But OTOH they do visit forums more frequently.

Best regards,
Wiktor Wandachowicz

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/gwn.xml
[2] http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/rss.xml
[3] http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-16.html

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GWN Comments

[Caleb Tennis]

> This is a COOL idea! A "global" forum with a text-only copy of current GWN
> would enable more users to actually read it. And adding comments would be
> even more beneficial. I think that it would be best to place it near the
> top
> of forums listing, like this:

Agreed.  I think this would be a good place to start until something else
is in place.

Caleb

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Tuesday 20 June 2006 04:32, Alec Warner wrote:
> CAPTCHA
Those are evil. You use one, I'm personally going to track you down and send 
you a thousand photos of Chris White and Jeffrey's goats circus stars 
together.. with a pole!

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/
Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GWN Comments

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 12:06:25PM +0000, Wiktor Wandachowicz wrote:
> The only problem
> could be to prevent creating topics in this forum by regular users, and giving
> the ability to post comments only.

(Again not a comment on the idea in general from me as i still haven't
talked to the others of the forums team about it).
You can set permissions for each forum, including who can create new
threads, and who can't. That could be used to allow users to reply
only to threads, but not create new ones.

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 04:14:19PM +0200, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> Those are evil. You use one, I'm personally going to track you down and send 
> you a thousand photos of Chris White and Jeffrey's goats circus stars 
> together.. with a pole!

Let's see if you can solve this one...

     3           e     
 |-|   l 1  oD      G  0  
              i      
        
So, where are my pics? They may become handy some day, i hear
blackmail is a profitable business...

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Josh Saddler]

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With all the talk about forums and comments, that got me thinking: Heck, why not
just have it posted to the forums? That way it and the comments can be viewed by
the general public, but if you want to comment, you can just use your existing
forum account. No additional account creation needed.

It'd be easy enough to create a script to turn urls and html into bbcode at the
time of posting, too.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Josh Saddler wrote:
> With all the talk about forums and comments, that got me thinking: Heck, why not
> just have it posted to the forums? That way it and the comments can be viewed by
> the general public, but if you want to comment, you can just use your existing
> forum account. No additional account creation needed.

Is this supposed to be sarcastic? You're bringing it up like it's a new
idea .. did you notice that was a suggestion in the original post?

Thanks,
Donnie


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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[Josh Saddler]

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Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Josh Saddler wrote:
>> With all the talk about forums and comments, that got me thinking: Heck, why not
>> just have it posted to the forums? That way it and the comments can be viewed by
>> the general public, but if you want to comment, you can just use your existing
>> forum account. No additional account creation needed.
> 
> Is this supposed to be sarcastic? You're bringing it up like it's a new
> idea .. did you notice that was a suggestion in the original post?
> 
> Thanks,
> Donnie
> 
Er, no, I didn't actually. Must need coffee. I didn't read it closely enough.
And here I wondered why it seemed like a glaring omission . . .
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GWN Comments

[George Prowse]

Personally I dont think it would be worth having the whole GWN on the
forums, if people dont read it in the email or online then putting it
on the forums isn't going to make them start reading it.

What the forum does allow is for people to suggest stories, give
suggestions for tips and tricks and generally comment on stories made
in the GWN if the so wish.

It would probably be like having an extra 20 people working and Plate
wouldn't have to do so much.

Also, as long as amne and kallamej stay away from it, it'll be fine :)

George
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