From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FpDks-0005iN-Ql for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:24:39 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k5B0LfmE028876; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:21:41 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5B0FN0x011981 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:15:23 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5689D64D99 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:15:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23153-08 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:15:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E004864E03 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 00:15:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.83.38.31] (helo=sven.genone.homeip.net) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML25U-1FpDbk3ZGB-0001XY; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 02:15:13 +0200 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 02:16:04 +0200 From: Marius Mauch To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] i18n project Message-ID: <20060611021604.1412291b@sven.genone.homeip.net> In-Reply-To: <448AC516.2070003@gentoo.org> References: <200606100137.30688@enterprise.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org> <448AC516.2070003@gentoo.org> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.3.0-rc3 (GTK+ 2.8.18; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Sig_USfPvdm1oW0dVkeohiAGBxh; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:7e6c91d1b14dbccceb2f2166522fa0f6 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.571 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.571 X-Spam-Level: X-Archives-Salt: 34f5a638-4f17-4771-846e-2cf4996c2c92 X-Archives-Hash: 2bc4808c67caca0509ccd2c106ce5629 --Sig_USfPvdm1oW0dVkeohiAGBxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:11:50 +0200 Jan Kundr=E1t wrote: > b) Localization of Gentoo-developed applications (portage, > gentoolkit,...) including their manpages I don't really like this one. Documentation, sure, but for the tools themselves I think it could cause more problems than actually help. Quoting a relevant discussion from #gentoo-portage earlier today that hopefully explains my concerns: I think if we are going to override LC_MESSAGES then we should consider it in terms of broader gettext support in portage. Flameeyes wants to help internationalize portage...=20 not much point if we reset language variables=20 yeah, it has to be considered together=20 zmedico: I don't like that idea much=20 reasoning? makes support harder extending the problem we are trying to solve, yeah we can refuse to support non-english reports. we already to afaik s/to/do/ I'm not only talking about bugzilla haahaa, why do we have it in portage then? how can something be both "official" and "unsupported"? ;) * genstef is stealing arguments from his opponents on the mailing lists ;)=20 genone: if not bugzilla, then...? forums, irc, mailing lists zmedico: any support channels: bugzilla, forums, irc, ... direct mail not only support by us, but also user2user lots of things are officially unsupported I was thinking we could have a mode that gives both english and the user's native locale=20 like overlays should of been one of those. overlay.dev.gentoo vs overlays.gentoo=20 zmedico: two tracebacks? ;) * zmedico nods 2 exception strings so portage exit errors will be doubled? IMO english+native is a extremely crappy thing yeah, maybe :) the thing is, nobody forces you to look at forums, irc, mail that's in a foreign language=20 and my point is that users often don't even realize that their post contains non-english text=20 it's an breach of etiquette, and they should be chastized :) I'd hope it could be handled well enough at a social level also in my experience translations in FOSS tend to be of poor quality, there have been several situations where I didn't understand what the german translation was supposed to mean where the original was perfectly clear=20 "Overtranslation" being one big problem that's a problem for the maintainers of the translations. portage devs won't handle translation...=20 well, maybe I'm wrong, but I think it would cause more problems than help=20 too bad not everyone knows english. :) too bad not everyone knows norwegian. :) Basically I don't think the benefit is rather dubious or maybe it's just that I had some rather bad experiences with translated versions of FOSS applications, but I'm quite opposed to this part of the project unless you have a way to remove my concerns. Marius --=20 Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. --Sig_USfPvdm1oW0dVkeohiAGBxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEi2DIWzrL1pM7SNcRApn/AJ9fyO77LrZIVn61iCvsdZNTkiGMkQCdHyb2 223auGfxsC+oFzxhF2ltdOY= =OFZg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_USfPvdm1oW0dVkeohiAGBxh-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list