[gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Peter]

Imagine a new user or visitor trolling this ML. They want to learn more
about Gentoo. Then they come across the Paludis thread. How TF can they
possibly follow what is going on? Then, as the thread wears on it
degenerates into more personal attacks. So it's Bennett/McCreesh against
the world. OK. However, continuing the thread serves no useful purpose
except, IMHO, to completely obfuscate the original point of the thread --
to allow paludis to have a profile or sub profile and/or whether or not it
should be on the tree or in an overlay.

While I am completely against any form of censorship, I certainly wish I
had the ability to block that thread and all further postings to it. Maybe
paludis can set up a blog on the berlios site?

There are many important issues that have surfaces WRT paludis that affect
the core of gentoo (pun intended). These issues cannot be resolved on a
ML. There appear to be certain policy issues that the council needs to
resolve.

So, while I am not endorsing pablum, at least let's cut the thread. I see
nothing useful coming from it anymore.

-- 
Peter


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Re: [gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Alec Warner]

Peter wrote:
> Imagine a new user or visitor trolling this ML. They want to learn more
> about Gentoo. Then they come across the Paludis thread. How TF can they
> possibly follow what is going on? Then, as the thread wears on it
> degenerates into more personal attacks. So it's Bennett/McCreesh against
> the world. OK. However, continuing the thread serves no useful purpose
> except, IMHO, to completely obfuscate the original point of the thread --
> to allow paludis to have a profile or sub profile and/or whether or not it
> should be on the tree or in an overlay.
> 
> While I am completely against any form of censorship, I certainly wish I
> had the ability to block that thread and all further postings to it. Maybe
> paludis can set up a blog on the berlios site?
> 
> There are many important issues that have surfaces WRT paludis that affect
> the core of gentoo (pun intended). These issues cannot be resolved on a
> ML. There appear to be certain policy issues that the council needs to
> resolve.
> 
> So, while I am not endorsing pablum, at least let's cut the thread. I see
> nothing useful coming from it anymore.
> 
No one forces you to read, feel free to ignore this thread, others are 
gleaning useful information from it.

-Alec Warner

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Re: [gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:41:09 -0400 Peter <pete4abw@comcast.net> wrote:
| However, continuing the thread serves no useful purpose except, IMHO,
| to completely obfuscate the original point of the thread

Nonsense. There is still productive discussion going on in that thread.
The only reason it is so noisy is because a small group of malcontents
who hold grudges against some of the Paludis developers.

| While I am completely against any form of censorship, I certainly
| wish I had the ability to block that thread and all further postings
| to it.

Then learn how to use your mail client.

And hey, look, by starting yet another thread you're just making noise
in an attempt to justify a personal grudge, thus making things harder
for the people who do real work around here. If you don't have anything
useful to contribute, shut up and go away.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail            : ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


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[gentoo-dev] Re: 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Peter]

On Thu, 18 May 2006 22:01:42 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> Then learn how to use your mail client.
> 
> And hey, look, by starting yet another thread you're just making noise
> in an attempt to justify a personal grudge, thus making things harder
> for the people who do real work around here. If you don't have anything
> useful to contribute, shut up and go away.
> 

Ciaram, I was actually sticking up for you and spb. I said nothing about
you or anyone else -- just the project. As usual though, you take
something and turn it into something it isn't and respond with insults.



-- 
Peter


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Chris White]

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Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 18 May 2006 17:08:17 -0400
Peter <pete4abw@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 May 2006 22:01:42 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> 
> > Then learn how to use your mail client.
> > 
> > And hey, look, by starting yet another thread you're just making
> > noise in an attempt to justify a personal grudge, thus making
> > things harder for the people who do real work around here. If you
> > don't have anything useful to contribute, shut up and go away.
> > 
> 
> Ciaram, I was actually sticking up for you and spb. I said nothing
> about you or anyone else -- just the project. As usual though, you
> take something and turn it into something it isn't and respond with
> insults.

Relax! Grab some popcorn, enjoy the show!  30 mile threads is what
makes real linux distros real.  We actually use them to provide a means
of cooking for the weekly dev BBQ's.  Anyways, at this point I'd call
it it a day and say "Hey everyone, let's all go to IRC"!  With that you
could probably reduce the thread count by 40%.

You could try telling people to sort their conversation into logical
structure.. but last time I tried that, Ciaranm put up a procmail rule
on how to nuke all mails from me, and someone else told me to pretty
much shove it. No love lolz!

So here's $5.00, grab some popcorn and soda and enjoy the show!

Chris White
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XHY3AG3QBGIosaGSJfogNEs=
=RTSY
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[George Prowse]

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On 18/05/06, Chris White <chriswhite@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 17:08:17 -0400
> Peter <pete4abw@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 18 May 2006 22:01:42 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> >
> > > Then learn how to use your mail client.
> > >
> > > And hey, look, by starting yet another thread you're just making
> > > noise in an attempt to justify a personal grudge, thus making
> > > things harder for the people who do real work around here. If you
> > > don't have anything useful to contribute, shut up and go away.
> > >
> >
> > Ciaram, I was actually sticking up for you and spb. I said nothing
> > about you or anyone else -- just the project. As usual though, you
> > take something and turn it into something it isn't and respond with
> > insults.
>
> Relax! Grab some popcorn, enjoy the show!  30 mile threads is what
> makes real linux distros real.  We actually use them to provide a means
> of cooking for the weekly dev BBQ's.  Anyways, at this point I'd call
> it it a day and say "Hey everyone, let's all go to IRC"!  With that you
> could probably reduce the thread count by 40%.
>
> You could try telling people to sort their conversation into logical
> structure.. but last time I tried that, Ciaranm put up a procmail rule
> on how to nuke all mails from me, and someone else told me to pretty
> much shove it. No love lolz!
>
> So here's $5.00, grab some popcorn and soda and enjoy the show!
>
> Chris White
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFEbAuRFdQwWVoAgN4RAqrnAJ94aXQ4QdwXIG+V8RpRFE8uqLXn6QCgmz+w
> XHY3AG3QBGIosaGSJfogNEs=
> =RTSY
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
> /me points the first finger

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Henrik Brix Andersen]

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On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 02:52:11PM +0900, Chris White wrote:
> Relax! Grab some popcorn, enjoy the show!  30 mile threads is what
> makes real linux distros real.  We actually use them to provide a means
> of cooking for the weekly dev BBQ's.  Anyways, at this point I'd call
> it it a day and say "Hey everyone, let's all go to IRC"!  With that you
> could probably reduce the thread count by 40%.

Yes, I agree. It is very nice. We're slowly turning into Debian Linux
- the role model of every GNU/Linux distribution out there.

End Of Sarcasm.

./Brix
-- 
Henrik Brix Andersen <brix@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Metadistribution | Mobile computing herd

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Owen Ford]

On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 09:07 +0200, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> Yes, I agree. It is very nice. We're slowly turning into Debian Linux
> - the role model of every GNU/Linux distribution out there.

I noticed that about the time GLEPs were introduced.  It's a shame
really.

-- 
Owen Ford <oford@arghblech.com>
()  The ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against HTML Email
/\   and proprietary formats.
 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Grant Goodyear]

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Ciaran McCreesh wrote: [Thu May 18 2006, 04:01:42PM CDT]
> On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:41:09 -0400 Peter <pete4abw@comcast.net> wrote:
> | However, continuing the thread serves no useful purpose except, IMHO,
> | to completely obfuscate the original point of the thread
> 
> Nonsense. There is still productive discussion going on in that thread.
> The only reason it is so noisy is because a small group of malcontents
> who hold grudges against some of the Paludis developers.

That's not entirely fair.  In the case of both pauldv and wolf31o2, I
suspect that holding grudges was not the reason for the heightened
tempers.  Instead, it looked to me like both devs had very strong
opinions on what an alternative package manager should do, and neither
was happy with the fact that paludis would work differently.
Consequently, they both attacked paludis quite strongly, asserting their
opinions as "obvious" facts, and received strongly-worded, not entirely helpful
counterarguments in return.  A larger dose of patience, or perhaps a few
controlled substances, would have dramatically lowered the heat.
Despite all that, there's been a lot of useful content in this thread.

> | While I am completely against any form of censorship, I certainly
> | wish I had the ability to block that thread and all further postings
> | to it.
> 
> Then learn how to use your mail client.

I wouldn't have stated it that way, but a threaded mail client does work
wonders for this sort of thing.  Both mutt and thunderbird, for example,
allow one to fold, delete, or otherwise just ignore a thread quite
nicely.

> And hey, look, by starting yet another thread you're just making noise
> in an attempt to justify a personal grudge, thus making things harder
> for the people who do real work around here. If you don't have anything
> useful to contribute, shut up and go away.

*Sigh*  Be nice, please.  Incidentally, he did have a point that this
thread is now darn hard to follow.  Perhaps it's time to split off a
thread or two...?

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Drake Wyrm]

Grant Goodyear <g2boojum@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Perhaps it's time to split off a thread or two...?

Perhaps, even a meta-thread!

-- 
Each night Father fills me with dread
When he sits on the foot of my bed.
        I'd not mind that he speaks; In gibbers and squeaks,
But for the seventeen years he's been dead.  --  Edward Gorey
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Re: [gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Jochen Maes]

> On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:41:09 -0400 Peter <pete4abw@comcast.net> wrote:
> | However, continuing the thread serves no useful purpose except, IMHO,
> | to completely obfuscate the original point of the thread
>
> Nonsense. There is still productive discussion going on in that thread.
> The only reason it is so noisy is because a small group of malcontents
> who hold grudges against some of the Paludis developers.
thisd is your opinion, i think both parties have expressed reasonable
technical reasons. And those that did are the ones that keep discussing.
>
> | While I am completely against any form of censorship, I certainly
> | wish I had the ability to block that thread and all further postings
> | to it.
>
> Then learn how to use your mail client.
>
> And hey, look, by starting yet another thread you're just making noise
> in an attempt to justify a personal grudge,

now you are jumping conclusion...

> thus making things harder
> for the people who do real work around here. If you don't have anything
> useful to contribute, shut up and go away.

way out of line! this is a public mailing list. till now everyone can mail
to it, and ask questions make suggestions etc...


calm down!

>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
> Mail            : ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
>
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


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Re: [gentoo-dev] 259 paludis-profile messages. ENOUGH!

[Stephen Bennett]

On Thu, 18 May 2006 16:41:09 -0400
Peter <pete4abw@comcast.net> wrote:

> So, while I am not endorsing pablum, at least let's cut the thread. I
> see nothing useful coming from it anymore.

While you may not see it, there are still useful points being raised.
If you don't want to read it, don't.
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