From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1FE7Xz-0003hK-1y for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:17:59 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k1SFxRhv016057; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:59:27 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [134.68.220.30]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1SFho8R028841 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:44:15 GMT Received: from [213.121.151.206] (helo=snowdrop.home) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.54) id 1FE6mt-0000YL-5Y for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:29:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=snowdrop.home) by snowdrop.home with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1FE6mn-0003CJ-Jp for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:29:13 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:29:10 +0000 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] QA Team's role Message-ID: <20060228152910.7786271e@snowdrop.home> In-Reply-To: <1507322031.20060228160805@gentoo.org> References: <20060226222217.GB17257@aerie.halcy0n.com> <1140997703.12229.166.camel@demandred.gnqs.org> <20060227003413.GE17257@aerie.halcy0n.com> <20060227170834.075e9388@snowdrop.home> <1141071970.804.19.camel@demandred.gnqs.org> <20060227203709.2a7bff47@snowdrop.home> <20060227204530.GO1516@toucan.gentoo.org> <20060227205445.057a91d9@snowdrop.home> <1141074742.826.35.camel@demandred.gnqs.org> <20060227213239.5cf14f0d@snowdrop.home> <1741768966.20060228104913@gentoo.org> <20060228143940.23149665@snowdrop.home> <1507322031.20060228160805@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.0.0 (GTK+ 2.8.12; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_ab/.oLATfu2oiWw1OjQYwQw"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Archives-Salt: 007a0375-ddb3-4c98-9ca2-aaffe9428c39 X-Archives-Hash: ca065f47690d15ee278de9d761c5a071 --Sig_ab/.oLATfu2oiWw1OjQYwQw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:08:05 +0100 Jakub Moc wrote: | 28.2.2006, 15:39:40, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:49:13 +0100 Jakub Moc | > wrote: | > | No, that's not a policy document, ebuild policy is documented | > | here: | > | | > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?style=3Dprin= table&part=3D3&chap=3D1 |=20 | > No, the whole thing is policy. |=20 | No, it isn't. 'Fraid it is. Everything in the devrel handbook that isn't explicitly marked as a guideline is policy. | And silently sticking parts of unofficial gentoo | devmanual into official Gentoo docs, and then silently turning them | into a "policy" enforced under QA disguise is a bad very practice, | and pretending that this has been in the mentioned _howto_ (not | policy) for a long time as just plain silly. Since you haven't | answered the question in one of my previous emails at all, let me ask | again: |=20 | When and where has been the following change discussed and who | approved that? |=20 | http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/xml/htdocs/proj/en/devrel/handb= ook/hb-guide-ebuild.xml?r1=3D1.25&r2=3D1.26&root=3Dgentoo Wouldn't know. That was nothing to do with me. I just wrote the original text (or actually, that might not even have been me). It finding its way into the policy docs was devrel's doing. | > | Moreover, the cited howto is wrong, since it will break | > | built_with_use checks |=20 | > No, that's a separate issue. |=20 | No, it isn't. If you want something to have as a policy, it needs to | be error-free, reasonably applicable and not doing more harm than if | it isn't applied at all. And implementing such stuff requires a | proper discussion, considering the consequences and some sort of | consent among affected developers. (Also, that howto example is less | than fortunate/clear, like some user noted in Bug 124401). built_with_use isn't a question of conflicting USE flags. It's a separate question of dependency resolution, and in this situation it *can't* be solved using the method that's been standard for four years or more. | > | The howto also doesn't apply to cases like | > | recode vs. mysql, because that's a completely different | > | functionality, you can't exactly choose which one is better on | > | behalf of the user. |=20 | > No, it does apply. |=20 | No, it doesn't, you can't reasonably favour one of two completely | different functionalities based on some automagic | assumption/developer discretion. That doesn't benefit users in any | way and just produces unexpected results (hey, I explicitely enabled | "recode" use flag and php compiled without, the ebuild is broken, | fix0r it!) By all means warn the user. There's nothing in policy disallowing that. | No, noone should enforce a policy that |=20 | - doesn't exist (see above) The whole devrel handbook is policy, except where otherwise noted. See Mike's reply. | - hasn't been discussed properly and approved (see above) Nothing in the devrel handbook was discussed properly or approved. | - it's consequences haven't been considered wrt whether its benefits | overweight the negatives and whether is useful at all. This one doesn't rule out the policy item in question. --=20 Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat) Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm --Sig_ab/.oLATfu2oiWw1OjQYwQw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEBGxJ96zL6DUtXhERAiV9AJ0Xe/Y3SsicNh55aqtoAo/MzHYTwwCeJTdv cjwigK/6oPXrZdwmoeeiiX8= =nrMT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_ab/.oLATfu2oiWw1OjQYwQw-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list