[gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[Bjarke Istrup Pedersen]

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Hey.

I was thinking, how about putting all log related packages into their
own category?
This should be logging daemons, log viewers, logrotate etc.

Maybe creating a logging herd would be an idea to, to remove the load
from the base-system herd.

What do you think?

Best regards
GurliGebis
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[John Mylchreest]

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On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 02:13:46PM +0100, Bjarke Istrup Pedersen <gurligebis@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I was thinking, how about putting all log related packages into their
> own category?
> This should be logging daemons, log viewers, logrotate etc.
> 
> Maybe creating a logging herd would be an idea to, to remove the load
> from the base-system herd.
> 
> What do you think?

I think this is a great idea, as long as it doesnt get abused. There are
quite a lot of log handling packages anyways, although would there be
enough to warrant a new category as well as a new herd?

My brief suggestion of packages which would be good for this:

app-admin/analog
app-admin/cronolog
app-admin/fetchlog
app-admin/klogview
app-admin/logmon
app-admin/logrotate
app-admin/logsentry
app-admin/metalog
app-admin/modlogan
app-admin/newsyslog
app-admin/phpsyslogng
app-admin/socklog
app-admin/sysklogd
app-admin/syslog-ng
app-admin/ulog-acctd
app-admin/ulogd
app-misc/logserial
net-firewall/fwanalog
net-mail/qlogtools
net-mail/qmailanalog
sys-apps/gluelog
sys-apps/logwatch
x11-misc/paralogger

Regards,
John

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[solar]

On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 14:13 +0100, Bjarke Istrup Pedersen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hey.
> 
> I was thinking, how about putting all log related packages into their
> own category?
> This should be logging daemons, log viewers, logrotate etc.
> 
> Maybe creating a logging herd would be an idea to, to remove the load
> from the base-system herd.
> 
> What do you think?

I think most pkgs are fine where they are at now.
The main logging pkgs do not suffer from not being maintained.
app-admin/ where most things are now seems the most fitting.

-- 
solar <solar@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[Kevin F. Quinn (Gentoo)]

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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:13:46 +0100
Bjarke Istrup Pedersen <gurligebis@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I was thinking, how about putting all log related packages into their
> own category?

Personally I think unless there is a real problem that needs to be
resolved, moving packages around should be avoided.  We've been over
the problems of the concept of categories many times, I don't see any
value in going through it in depth again as categories are too deeply
embedded to be changed.  Suffice to say that any package is likely to
have several reasonable categorisations, however the tree only supports
one. Different people will prefer different categorisations according
to each person's perspective, so moving packages to suit one perspective
just messes things up for another perspective.

> Maybe creating a logging herd would be an idea to, to remove the load
> from the base-system herd.

Creating a herd is not a problem; obviously herds and categories are
completely different things.  However a quick scan of the
logging-related packages in sys-admin shows they mostly do not belong
to a herd, so are not imposing any load on the base-system herd as such.
Creation of a herd for these packages would be a question for the
maintainers of those packages :)

-- 
Kevin F. Quinn

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 20:30 +0100, Kevin F. Quinn (Gentoo) wrote:
> Personally I think unless there is a real problem that needs to be
> resolved, moving packages around should be avoided.  

It's a shame we can't find a way to turn package categories into solely
a presentational feature, rather than being an integral part of the
package's identity as it is today.  (And, at the same time, multi-depth
categories would also be nice :)

With the way things are today, "improvements" to the structure of the
package tree are held back by our historical legacy.  As the tree grows,
it makes sense to move packages into new groups that weren't viable
before - and to clear out historical dumping grounds in the process.

If package categories were only something that users used to find things
- and weren't used by Portage as part of a package's unique identity -
then we could afford to be more flexible on this.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                         stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                  http://www.gentoo.org/
                                          http://blog.stuartherbert.com/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[Bjarke Istrup Pedersen]

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Stuart Herbert skrev:
> On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 20:30 +0100, Kevin F. Quinn (Gentoo) wrote:
>> Personally I think unless there is a real problem that needs to be
>> resolved, moving packages around should be avoided.  
> 
> It's a shame we can't find a way to turn package categories into solely
> a presentational feature, rather than being an integral part of the
> package's identity as it is today.  (And, at the same time, multi-depth
> categories would also be nice :)
> 
> With the way things are today, "improvements" to the structure of the
> package tree are held back by our historical legacy.  As the tree grows,
> it makes sense to move packages into new groups that weren't viable
> before - and to clear out historical dumping grounds in the process.
> 
> If package categories were only something that users used to find things
> - and weren't used by Portage as part of a package's unique identity -
> then we could afford to be more flexible on this.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stu

That sounds like a cool idea, but it requires a few things.
We need a way to browse the tree, that supports packages being in
several categories. (Lets call them category-keywords).

Having a directory structure might not be the best way, since the
category-keywords will be more of a metadata thing, than a directory.

I'm not sure how this could be implemented, but it sure requires a GLEP.

Any suggestions on how this could be implemented? (Maybe having a SQLite
database with all the meta info, to save some time syncing and space.
Could with a bit of luck have all the metadata for portage, like digests
etc. , but thats another idea though).

Best Regards
Bjarke
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[Jochen Maes]

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"Defer no time, delays have dangerous ends"
"Ne humanus crede"

Jochen Maes                     
Gentoo Linux
Gentoo Belgium
http://sejo.be
http://gentoo.be
http://gentoo.org


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Putting all log related packages into it's own category (sys-logging)

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:20:39 +0100 Bjarke Istrup Pedersen
<gurligebis@gentoo.org> wrote:
| Any suggestions on how this could be implemented? (Maybe having a
| SQLite database with all the meta info, to save some time syncing and
| space. Could with a bit of luck have all the metadata for portage,
| like digests etc. , but thats another idea though).

Using a database does not save space or make things faster. Nor will it
make syncing any faster.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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