From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1F4FTc-0006ZR-9T for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:44:40 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k11Ahsvw031556; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:43:54 GMT Received: from phasar.techops.uk.betfair ([213.86.197.188]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k11Ag1MO003933 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:42:01 GMT Received: by phasar.techops.uk.betfair (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 277DA5B81; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:42:01 +0000 (UTC) From: "Benjamin Smee (strerror)" Organization: Gentoo To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Default Ebuild behaviour Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:41:56 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9 Cc: Ciaran McCreesh References: <200601311211.59355.strerror@gentoo.org> <200601311706.38570.strerror@gentoo.org> <20060131172442.5c878a3d@snowdrop.home> In-Reply-To: <20060131172442.5c878a3d@snowdrop.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602011042.00922.strerror@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Archives-Salt: 5e2f9085-bc5d-4864-b016-5f773327587a X-Archives-Hash: 33c18ac2a5fc6b89049fd2511344972c -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 lo, On Tuesday 31 January 2006 17:24, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > | That is surely a "cost" people have for upgrading an application and > | have implicitly accepted by doing so. > > Not really. There's a basic cost of installing or upgrading an > application, but there's also additional cost that comes from optional > extras. Surely that so long as it is "optional" then that is implicitly accepted if they chose to use it. > Noooooo! Not the cost from using a sucky filesystem. The cost from your > application of choice having to parse all those files. Bash is a good > example -- it's not particularly fast (read: very slow) at parsing > scripts, and if you have a zillion bash completion scripts installed > then something as simple as starting a terminal can take a very long > time. It's precisely this that lead to bash-completion-config. This sounds like something particular to your configuration and usage rather then a problem for everyone. I'll accept that more files will equate to some performance hit, but not something that most people will be seriously impacted by. > Sure, packages are expected to work after installation. Does providing > a cron entry count as part of working? Not for some packages. Does > installing a bash completion entry count as part of working? Not for > most packages. No-one (sane, anyway) is opposed to decent default > config files going into /etc automatically where such a thing is > possible. The question is how to handle the high cost extras. Thats precisely my point (well the other part of the point was that there are a lot of ebuilds that are NOT working after an emerge and they should)! I want to see a consistant way of handling the extras. > | and here is the nature of the problem imho. Currently everyone is > | making these educated decisions and it means there is no coherency at > | all. > > Nooooo! The educated decisions include "how everyone else is handling > the issue". Thats the thing, everyone is not handling the issue in the same manner. > Hah, I tried that with devmanual. The problem is, the worst offenders > for doing perverse things in ebuilds are the same ones who won't accept > any documentation that isn't official and marked mandatory and who will > block any documentation of existing practice from becoming policy > because it isn't policy. Thats where I want to go with this, get agreement, get it "ratified", make it policy and start enforcing it. Policies after all, should come into existance to help achieve something, not as a hinderance. I'm only pushing this because I think having a policy on this matter WOULD make things better for everyone. - -- Benjamin Smee (strerror) crypto/forensics/netmail/netmon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.9.20 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFD4JB4AEpm7USL54wRAidsAJ0dqYc9yvhpqyzujBLLlVoMaUlM+wCfVwWR pQPf8np5sCPeJaNmaEr8i5w= =6wuc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list