[gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

After reading Donnie's interesting post about how to set VIDEO_CARDS and 
INPUT_DEVICES in xorg 7, I wondered for a while if LINGUAS should have the 
same treatment.

Defining LINGUAS variable would be useful to allow people to know whether they 
are going to have special support for their language in a package, but it 
would also clutter the output quite a bit. I experimented locally with kdetv, 
that uses LINGUAS variable to condition .po files and documentation 
generation in a predictable way (as in, the ebuild has to know which 
languages are available beforehand anyway):

[ebuild   R   ] media-tv/kdetv-0.8.8-r1  USE="-arts -debug -lirc -opengl 
-xinerama -zvbi" LINGUAS="it% -bg% -br% -ca% -cs% -cy% -da% -de% -el% -en_GB% 
-es% -et% -fi% -fr% -ga% -gl% -hu% -is% -lt% -mt% -nb% -nl% -pa% -pl% -pt% 
-pt_BR% -ro% -ru% -rw% -sr% -sr@Latn% -sv% -ta% -tr% -zh_CN%" 0 kB

What people think of this? Whatever decision is taken I think it should also 
be documented somewhere for people to use.
Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid useflags, all 
the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc (consider that it would 
take a while, _if_ we decide to go this route, before all packages are 
updated to do this, but it's silly to pollute the use.local.desc file until 5 
packages are using a given language); the descriptions need also to be 
accurate.

(sorry missing signature, I've broken pinentry and waiting for it to be 
rebuilt by emerge -e world)

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:17:36 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
<flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
| Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid
| useflags, all the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc

No, part of the point of USE_EXPAND is that they shouldn't. This is a
repoman bug.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Jason Stubbs]

On Monday 30 January 2006 16:43, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:17:36 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
> <flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid
> | useflags, all the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc
> 
> No, part of the point of USE_EXPAND is that they shouldn't. This is a
> repoman bug.

I have yet to be enlightened on any merit of USE_EXPAND is so perhaps you 
could explain as to why there should be user-configured-yet-undocumented 
options for ebuilds? More precisely, how should they be documented if not
via use.desc?

--
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:46:28 +0900 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Monday 30 January 2006 16:43, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:17:36 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
| > <flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
| > | Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid
| > | useflags, all the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc
| > 
| > No, part of the point of USE_EXPAND is that they shouldn't. This is
| > a repoman bug.
| 
| I have yet to be enlightened on any merit of USE_EXPAND is so perhaps
| you could explain as to why there should be
| user-configured-yet-undocumented options for ebuilds? More precisely,
| how should they be documented if not via use.desc?

1. Because for things like LINGUAS, there are arbitrarily many legal
values, and documenting them all and keeping the list up to date would
be extremely difficult.

2. Because USE_EXPAND is used for special USE things like arch and
userland, and because we undocumented the special arch USE flags
because they're not user settable.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Monday 30 January 2006 12:54, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> 2. Because USE_EXPAND is used for special USE things like arch and
> userland, and because we undocumented the special arch USE flags
> because they're not user settable.
It was already discussed that those special arch USE flags, as soon as they 
are "safe" (there's a GLEP Grobian and I have to throw here to discuss wrt 
that) would be added to some sort of variable to disappear from users' 
sights.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Jason Stubbs]

On Monday 30 January 2006 20:54, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:46:28 +0900 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> | On Monday 30 January 2006 16:43, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> | > On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:17:36 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
> | > <flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | > | Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid
> | > | useflags, all the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc
> | > 
> | > No, part of the point of USE_EXPAND is that they shouldn't. This is
> | > a repoman bug.
> | 
> | I have yet to be enlightened on any merit of USE_EXPAND is so perhaps
> | you could explain as to why there should be
> | user-configured-yet-undocumented options for ebuilds? More precisely,
> | how should they be documented if not via use.desc?
> 
> 1. Because for things like LINGUAS, there are arbitrarily many legal
> values, and documenting them all and keeping the list up to date would
> be extremely difficult.

"More precisely, how should they be documented if not via use.desc?"

> 2. Because USE_EXPAND is used for special USE things like arch and
> userland, and because we undocumented the special arch USE flags
> because they're not user settable.

These variables are internal and not meant to be user configurable.

--
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:31:55 +0900 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| > 1. Because for things like LINGUAS, there are arbitrarily many legal
| > values, and documenting them all and keeping the list up to date
| > would be extremely difficult.
| 
| "More precisely, how should they be documented if not via use.desc?"

They shouldn't be.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Tuesday 31 January 2006 06:31, Jason Stubbs wrote:
> On Monday 30 January 2006 20:54, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > 1. Because for things like LINGUAS, there are arbitrarily many legal
> > values, and documenting them all and keeping the list up to date would
> > be extremely difficult.
>
> "More precisely, how should they be documented if not via use.desc?"

considering there's a ton more LINGUAS values than we have USE flags (just run 
`wc` on use.desc and lang.desc), bloating use.desc with LINGUAS settings 
benefits *noone*

we have lang.desc, it is quite populated, what's wrong with having portage 
read that
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Jason Stubbs]

On Tuesday 31 January 2006 22:39, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 31 January 2006 06:31, Jason Stubbs wrote:
> > On Monday 30 January 2006 20:54, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > > 1. Because for things like LINGUAS, there are arbitrarily many legal
> > > values, and documenting them all and keeping the list up to date would
> > > be extremely difficult.
> >
> > "More precisely, how should they be documented if not via use.desc?"
> 
> considering there's a ton more LINGUAS values than we have USE flags (just run 
> `wc` on use.desc and lang.desc), bloating use.desc with LINGUAS settings 
> benefits *noone*
> 
> we have lang.desc, it is quite populated, what's wrong with having portage 
> read that

Absolutely nothing. I am in no way suggesting that use.desc is the possible
fix. I wasn't even suggesting that each individual flag need be documented.
However, if lang.desc already exists (and it does) and can be renamed to
linguas.desc, it is probably a better way to manage it than use.desc. Is
having INPUT_DEVICES and the like following the same scheme
(ie, input_devices.desc) acceptable?

--
Jason Stubbs
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Jason Stubbs wrote:
> Is
> having INPUT_DEVICES and the like following the same scheme
> (ie, input_devices.desc) acceptable?

As long as I can still get the pretty output with -vp. =)

Thanks,
Donnie


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Wednesday 01 February 2006 01:55, Jason Stubbs wrote:
> However, if lang.desc already exists (and it does) and can be renamed to
> linguas.desc, it is probably a better way to manage it than use.desc.
Yeah that would help. But in the mean time what should we do? If I commit 
something with LINGUAS expanded (for example xdtv for which I need, that I 
want it or not, to know the LINGUAS) right now Mr_Bones_ is going to run at 
me with an adamantium club of vanquishing +9 ...

I'm waiting for this for also alsa-driver (which I'm actually wondering 
whether it's the case... mainly because there the ebuild uses ALSA_CARDS 
directly, not sure what would happen if someone tries to set the things in 
package.use ...).

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:46:55 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
<flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
| Yeah that would help. But in the mean time what should we do?

What you should always do. Do the right thing, even if repoman
disagrees. Remember that repoman is there to try to help catch certain
kinds of common screwups, not to dictate what you must do. If repoman
is wrong, go ahead and commit, but also make sure that there's a bug
filed describing how repoman is broken.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Thursday 02 February 2006 20:55, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> <flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | Yeah that would help. But in the mean time what should we do?
>
> What you should always do. Do the right thing, even if repoman
> disagrees. 
Seems like repoman is actually our boss in this case, so I was forced to put 
the linguas_* to use.local.desc.
(If you can't tell, yeah I'm using a polemic tone this time)

I'm wondering if to have a solution we're going to wait till the 
use.local.desc file is cluttered with all the linguas_* flags.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sunday 05 February 2006 09:51, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Thursday 02 February 2006 20:55, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > <flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > | Yeah that would help. But in the mean time what should we do?
> >
> > What you should always do. Do the right thing, even if repoman
> > disagrees.
>
> Seems like repoman is actually our boss in this case, so I was forced to
> put the linguas_* to use.local.desc.

that's retarded, please remove all such linguas_* crap from use.desc files
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Sunday 05 February 2006 21:34, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> that's retarded, please remove all such linguas_* crap from use.desc files
I can, but then Mr_Bones_ will come back to me again and we're stuck in this 
loop.

You can remove them, but then it's your turn with Mr_Bones_ about them.

So here it's what you can do:
 - remove an useful feature, but then I'll ask you why can't we use it and fix 
one of the other two options instead of forcing them back because of what 
repoman say;
 - tell Mr_Bones_ and who's doing QA that we don't care about what repoman say 
and linguas_* can remain IUSE.invalid until repoman is fixed;
 - leave the 10 flags there alone and wait till repoman is fixed.

Up to you baby.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:43:58 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
<flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
| On Sunday 05 February 2006 21:34, Mike Frysinger wrote:
| > that's retarded, please remove all such linguas_* crap from
| > use.desc files
|
| I can, but then Mr_Bones_ will come back to me again and we're stuck
| in this loop.

Mr_Bones_ is, in this particular instance, wrong. We do not go around
changing ebuilds simply because repoman has a bug. Instead, we make
sure that there's a bug filed about repoman being broken, and do the
right thing in the tree.

repoman is there to help catch certain kinds of common screwup, if
you're lucky. It is not there to be relied upon, and it is not there to
tell you what to do.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (King of all Londinium)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sunday 05 February 2006 15:43, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Sunday 05 February 2006 21:34, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > that's retarded, please remove all such linguas_* crap from use.desc
> > files
>
> I can, but then Mr_Bones_ will come back to me again and we're stuck in
> this loop.

Mr_Bones_ should be aware that this is a repoman limitation, not a bug in the 
ebuild itself ... fix repoman, not hack other crap

> You can remove them, but then it's your turn with Mr_Bones_ about them.

done
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Sunday 05 February 2006 22:04, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > You can remove them, but then it's your turn with Mr_Bones_ about them.
> done
Thanks :)

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Alec Warner]

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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sunday 05 February 2006 09:51, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> 
>>On Thursday 02 February 2006 20:55, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>>
>>><flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>| Yeah that would help. But in the mean time what should we do?
>>>
>>>What you should always do. Do the right thing, even if repoman
>>>disagrees.
>>
>>Seems like repoman is actually our boss in this case, so I was forced to
>>put the linguas_* to use.local.desc.
> 
> 
> that's retarded, please remove all such linguas_* crap from use.desc files
> -mike
> 

There is nowhere else to put it.  It was suggested on bugs to put a new
directory in $PORTDIR/metadata/desc/ and have the $USE_EXPAND.desc files
in there for portage/repoman to read in.  I don't have a problem with
doing that but would like feedback on it before jumping right in.

Obviously the QA team should be aware of the issue with USE_EXPAND and IUSE.

I don't want to rush this, is my point ;)

-Alec Warner


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Thursday 02 February 2006 20:55, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> but also make sure that there's a bug
> filed describing how repoman is broken.
FWIW, I've filed that bug and attached a patch that solves the issue by 
letting repoman load the *.desc files in profiles dir for the use-expanded 
variables.
Now we only need a linguas.desc that contains the right codes (lang.desc does 
not really sound that good, some of the codes are used in a different way by 
locales, like en-gb vs en_GB).

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Jakub Moc]

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30.1.2006, 12:46:28, Jason Stubbs wrote:

> On Monday 30 January 2006 16:43, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:17:36 +0100 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Petteno"
>> <flameeyes@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> | Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid
>> | useflags, all the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc
>> 
>> No, part of the point of USE_EXPAND is that they shouldn't. This is a
>> repoman bug.

Not only repoman - see Bug 70648

> I have yet to be enlightened on any merit of USE_EXPAND is so perhaps you 
> could explain as to why there should be user-configured-yet-undocumented 
> options for ebuilds? More precisely, how should they be documented if not
> via use.desc?

Pretty much exhaustively flam^W discussed in Bug 70648 as well. LINGUAS are
not use flags, otherwise they wouldn't have to exist. Sticking this stuff
into IUSE just bloats it like hell, and as ciaranm pointed in another mail,
maintaining lists of honored LINGUAS in each ebuild it just huge maintenance
overhead with no gain...


-- 
Best regards,

 Jakub Moc
 mailto:jakub@gentoo.org
 GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Monday 30 January 2006 13:31, Jakub Moc wrote:
> maintaining lists of honored LINGUAS in each ebuild it just huge
> maintenance overhead with no gain...
Well at least for the KDE ebuilds that does honour it in a non-automatic 
version, the list is anyway needed, as I said, I hadn't had to prepare the 
list for kdetv, I just changed a bit the way I declare it and added a for 
loop to add the IUSE.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Jason Stubbs]

On Monday 30 January 2006 14:17, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> [ebuild   R   ] media-tv/kdetv-0.8.8-r1  USE="-arts -debug -lirc -opengl 
> -xinerama -zvbi" LINGUAS="it% -bg% -br% -ca% -cs% -cy% -da% -de% -el% 
> -en_GB% -es% -et% -fi% -fr% -ga% -gl% -hu% -is% -lt% -mt% -nb% -nl% -pa% 
> -pl% -pt% -pt_BR% -ro% -ru% -rw% -sr% -sr@Latn% -sv% -ta% -tr% -zh_CN%" 0 kB

This would only be on the first installation. The "%" symbol indicates that 
the flags have been added. On the second run it would become:

> [ebuild   R   ] media-tv/kdetv-0.8.8-r1  USE="-arts -debug -lirc -opengl 
> -xinerama -zvbi" LINGUAS="it -bg -br -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en_GB -es -et 
> -fi -fr -ga -gl -hu -is -lt -mt -nb -nl -pa -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -rw -sr 
> -sr@Latn -sv -ta -tr -zh_CN" 0 kB 

Not a huge difference but not exactly minor either. And of course LINGUAS="" 
wouldn't be shown at all if nothing had changed with regard to it and 
--verbose wasn't specified.

--
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Monday 30 January 2006 12:43, Jason Stubbs wrote:
> Not a huge difference but not exactly minor either. And of course
> LINGUAS="" wouldn't be shown at all if nothing had changed with regard to
> it and --verbose wasn't specified.
That's a point to put them there, it's also quite interesting to see, and 
might help people who don't know they can set LINGUAS...

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Monday 30 January 2006 06:17, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> Defining LINGUAS variable would be useful to allow people to know whether
> they are going to have special support for their language in a package, but
> it would also clutter the output quite a bit.
Okay then.. I'm still looking locally how it appears, and I'm thinking it's 
really useful to have LINGUAS told in emerge -pv and -av. The reason is 
trivial: if someone sets LINGUAS for something, and then does not get that 
language supported, it might wonder why; by stating the accepted LINGUAS the 
problem is solved.

Also, it would allow to know when a new language support is available.

This makes version bumps a bit more complex, as just renaming the ebuild will 
ignore changes in supported LINGUAS, but for most cases, it's needed anyway 
(I think of xdtv for example). For KDE-based stuff, the LINGUAS handling is 
simple to recalculate: on the new tarball (that one should extract anyway), 
just do ls po | grep -v Makefile | xargs echo to get the language supported 
and the same with doc dir to get the documentation languages (then mix them 
while adding IUSE and there you are).

I'm at 5 packages with local LINGUAS support and the output of their -pv is:

[ebuild   R   ] app-editors/kile-1.9_beta2  USE="kde -arts -debug -xinerama" 
LINGUAS="it% -br% -ca% -cs% -cy% -da% -de% -el% -en_GB% -es% -et% -eu% -fi% 
-fr% -ga% -gl% -hi% -hu% -is% -ja% -lt% -mt% -nb% -nl% -nn% -pa% -pl% -pt% 
-pt_BR% -ro% -rw% -sk% -sr% -sr@Latn% -sv% -ta% -tr% -zh_CN%" 0 kB
[ebuild   R   ] net-irc/konversation-0.19  USE="-arts -debug -xinerama" 
LINGUAS="it -bg -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es -et -fi -fr -hi -ja -nl -pt -pt_BR 
-ru -sr -sr@Latn -sv -ta -tr" 0 kB [3]
[ebuild   R   ] media-tv/kdetv-0.8.8-r1  USE="-arts -debug -lirc -opengl 
-xinerama -zvbi" LINGUAS="it% -bg% -br% -ca% -cs% -cy% -da% -de% -el% -en_GB% 
-es% -et% -fi% -fr% -ga% -gl% -hu% -is% -lt% -mt% -nb% -nl% -pa% -pl% -pt% 
-pt_BR% -ro% -ru% -rw% -sr% -sr@Latn% -sv% -ta% -tr% -zh_CN%" 0 kB
[ebuild     UD] media-sound/amarok-1.3.8 [1.4_pre20060116] USE="flac kde 
musicbrainz vorbis xine -arts -debug -gstreamer -mp3 -mysql -noamazon -opengl 
-postgres -visualization -xinerama -xmms" LINGUAS="it% -az% -be% -bg% -br% 
-ca% -cs% -cy% -da% -de% -el% -en_GB% -eo% -es% -et% -fi% -fr% -ga% -gl% -he% 
-hi% -hr% -hu% -id% -is% -ja% -ko% -ku% -lo% -lt% -nb% -nds% -nl% -nn% -pa% 
-pl% -pt% -pt_BR% -ro% -ru% -se% -sl% -sq% -sr% -sr@Latn% -ss% -sv% -ta% -tg% 
-th% -tr% -uk% -uz% -zh_CN% -zh_TW%" 0 kB
[ebuild   R   ] media-tv/xdtv-2.3.0  USE="X alsa ffmpeg jpeg ogg png xv xvid 
zvbi -Xaw3d -aqua_theme -carbone_theme -debug -dvb -encode -lirc -neXt 
-xinerama" LINGUAS="en% it% -ca% -de% -es% -fr% -gl% -ja% -pl% -ru%" 0 kB

(amarok 1.4 is still to fix, I'll do that in my overlay).

> Also, as repoman complain about linguas_blabla not being a valid useflags,
> all the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc
Well I got at least 5 packages that uses a bunch of those LINGUAS flags, so I 
think it's not a problem about adding them to use.desc instead of 
use.local.desc.

If somebody has a list of those variables, I would add them, it seems to me 
the most sensible way to do that, it would add documentation allowing people 
to know what they are going to do. Also, as use.desc is alphabetically 
sorted, all the linguas_* variables will stay together.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 30 January 2006 11:15, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Monday 30 January 2006 06:17, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> > Defining LINGUAS variable would be useful to allow people to know whether
> > they are going to have special support for their language in a package,
> > but it would also clutter the output quite a bit.
>
> Okay then.. I'm still looking locally how it appears, and I'm thinking it's
> really useful to have LINGUAS told in emerge -pv and -av.

it makes a the -pv output unreadable and thus useless ... although if you do 
something like -pvv, then the user can expect to get a lot of output ...

of course this still doesnt address the pita maintenance issue

> If somebody has a list of those variables, I would add them, it seems to me
> the most sensible way to do that, it would add documentation allowing
> people to know what they are going to do. Also, as use.desc is
> alphabetically sorted, all the linguas_* variables will stay together.

no, we have lang.desc already, dont clutter use.desc with this crap
-mike

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Monday 30 January 2006 17:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> it makes a the -pv output unreadable and thus useless ... although if you
> do something like -pvv, then the user can expect to get a lot of output ...
emerge -p is now less useless than before so it make sense for -pv to show lot 
of stuff..

> of course this still doesnt address the pita maintenance issue
Adds an extra check to do before a bump. One would expect people to look at 
what they bump..

> no, we have lang.desc already, dont clutter use.desc with this crap
Then portage should handle linguas.desc video_cards.desc and so on...

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 30 January 2006 11:48, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Monday 30 January 2006 17:38, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > it makes a the -pv output unreadable and thus useless ... although if you
> > do something like -pvv, then the user can expect to get a lot of output
> > ...
>
> emerge -p is now less useless than before so it make sense for -pv to show
> lot of stuff..

not really ... you're going from basic info (-p) to a crap ton of info (-pv) 
rather than offering a middle step

incremental verbose is trivial and i'm pretty sure emerge already does it

> > of course this still doesnt address the pita maintenance issue
>
> Adds an extra check to do before a bump. One would expect people to look at
> what they bump..

it's a big pita, you cant make it sound trivial so stop trying
-mike

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Duncan]

Mike Frysinger posted <200601301138.35803.vapier@gentoo.org>, excerpted
below,  on Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:38:35 -0500:

> On Monday 30 January 2006 11:15, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
>> On Monday 30 January 2006 06:17, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
>> > Defining LINGUAS variable would be useful to allow people to know whether
>> > they are going to have special support for their language in a package,
>> > but it would also clutter the output quite a bit.
>>
>> Okay then.. I'm still looking locally how it appears, and I'm thinking it's
>> really useful to have LINGUAS told in emerge -pv and -av.
> 
> it makes a the -pv output unreadable and thus useless ... although if you do 
> something like -pvv, then the user can expect to get a lot of output ...

Yes. 

I'd suggest either (1) a feature (perhaps on by default) to enable
LINGUAS output, or (2) double-verbose, or (3) perhaps a single linguas USE
flag that would enable them for that package and thus list them.  That
way, the additional clutter could be turned off, and the USE flag list
would again be relatively usable.

Likewise for xorg-x11 and its new VIDEO_CARDS and INPUT_DEVICES, some sort
of control over whether all that is displayed would be useful.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IUSE and LINGUAS?

[Harald van Dijk]

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On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 06:17:36AM +0100, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> [ebuild   R   ] media-tv/kdetv-0.8.8-r1  USE="-arts -debug -lirc -opengl 
> -xinerama -zvbi" LINGUAS="it% -bg% -br% -ca% -cs% -cy% -da% -de% -el% -en_GB% 
> -es% -et% -fi% -fr% -ga% -gl% -hu% -is% -lt% -mt% -nb% -nl% -pa% -pl% -pt% 
> -pt_BR% -ro% -ru% -rw% -sr% -sr@Latn% -sv% -ta% -tr% -zh_CN%" 0 kB
>...
> the linguas_* useflags should be listed in use.desc (consider that it would 
> take a while, _if_ we decide to go this route, before all packages are 
> updated to do this, but it's silly to pollute the use.local.desc file until 5 

How would this work with packages which treat unset LINGUAS as "install
all languages", and empty but set LINGUAS as "install no languages" (the
way LINGUAS was supposed to work)? When changing between the two, emerge
-pv would show no changes, and there is no way for ebuilds to work
around that. I'm all for telling users what parts of a package are
optional, but incorrect info is worse than no info. (This doesn't apply
to the KDE ebuilds, since they treat empty and unset LINGUAS the same,
but you said all packages.)

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