From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1F1xXp-0001Ie-B0 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:11:33 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k0Q39jvg022133; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:09:45 GMT Received: from gw.open-hosting.net (gw.open-hosting.net [65.64.29.89]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0Q36IGO027749 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:06:19 GMT Received: from spanky.linuxwiz.net (pcp457525pcs.7acres01.ar.comcast.net [68.51.10.211]) by gw.open-hosting.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0Q36CEc007245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:06:17 -0600 From: Mikey To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: bootstrapping since gcc 3.4 is stable Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:06:06 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9 References: <200601252251.k0PMpKZZ004307@gw.open-hosting.net> In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4541618.DyNvBaFl5l"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200601252106.10400.mikey@badpenguins.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on gw.open-hosting.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=no version=3.0.4-gr0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-gr0 (2005-06-05) on gw.open-hosting.net X-Archives-Salt: 6d32be98-8f8f-4d2e-94d4-d4581438f235 X-Archives-Hash: 243950a0178ca31c926285ad3dffc935 --nextPart4541618.DyNvBaFl5l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 25 January 2006 20:40, Sven K=F6hler wrote: > Mike is telling me, that the 2006.0 tarballs will contain gcc-3.4. > Then he's telling me, that the problem, that Im trying to point out, is > going to vanish with the release of the 2006.0 tarballs. Well, yes, > until the next gcc-slot becomes stable. So the problem is not fixed, > just moved to the future again. > Actually I'm told, that there's no automatic mechanism to get a "clean" > gentoo system. So i'm told, that i have to take a stage3 tarball, and > upgrade it to a clean system. > If i follow that advice, i have to upgrade glibc, gcc, python and > perhaps many more, clean the system from packages in old slots, and then > run an "emerge -e world" (which compiles glibc, gcc, python again). > > Pretty much work for a beginnner! > And there's pretty much of experience needed. Wow, a voice of reason. That is exactly what I am saying. Gentoo is uniqu= e=20 because it it a moving target. The further in time you move away from an=20 official stage3, the worst a stage3 installation method gets. In fact it=20 turns into a outright nightmare. How long since the last up to date stage= =20 tarballs? Solutions? Release stage tarballs monthly. If that can't be done, make fixing the=20 process so it can be done a priority. =46or toolchain updates, a slightly modified bootstrap.sh that builds the=20 toolchain in the correct order and whatever is needed to bootstrap portage= =20 afterwards would be a better approach. Fix the STAGE1_USE bug, comment out= =20 CONFIG_PROTECT=3D"-*" and FEATURES=3D"-collision-protect" and you have a=20 perfectly reliable method to update the toolchain that takes half the time,= =20 even on a running system. This would certainly be more realistic than=20 gutting portage so that it installs toolchain packages in the correct order= =20 so that emerge -e system && emerge -e world is not needed. Get rid of=20 circular dependencies in portage so it can be portable. Embed its own=20 python version so it does not depend on packages with circular=20 dependencies. Do I know absolutely that any of these ideas will work? =20 Hell no, but I do know the current installation method sucks depending on=20 what time of the year it is, and the answer is not to entrench further in=20 an unreliable process. If nothing else, stop treating users like idiots when they are not, at leas= t=20 not all of them, all of the time. --nextPart4541618.DyNvBaFl5l Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBD2DyivLQEgKTTl9MRAiNtAJ4jOgReyeQTUjd1LQdG0yHnQkjE8ACguuxl oAgk9pH4QwVzaibiFajTO/c= =wLdU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4541618.DyNvBaFl5l-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list