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From: Aron Griffis <agriffis@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:09:39 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060105200939.GA25297@vino.zko.hp.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060105043130.GI1967@mail.lieber.org>

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Hi Kurt,

Kurt Lieber wrote:	[Wed Jan 04 2006, 11:31:30PM EST]
> > Ok, then what should Gentoo do to fix this percieved decline?
> 
> Exactly what a lot of folks will have kittens about; appoint a CEO,
> leader, boss, manager, etc.  (you know, all those corporate-type
> words that raise the hackles of nearly everyone on this list.)

I think there is a Post Hoc fallacy happening here: A happened before
B, therefore A must be causing B.  In the case at hand: A = loss of
leader, B = lack of progress.  While A might be the cause of B, it is
dangerous to jump to that conclusion without more than the sequence as
support.

I don't think I can solidly refute the possibility of a relationship,
but here is some food for thought:

First, Gentoo's developers are not going to follow a leader's
direction unless they sincerely agree with it.  Since we're all
volunteers, the only cooperative work we're going to see is when
people agree with a goal.  Therefore it doesn't matter whether you
name somebody "our leader" or if they're just another developer,
either way they're going to have to convince people to play along.
Our current model already allows for centralized leadership via
meritocracy: any developer can step up to the plate and be king for
the day, they just have to have a good idea and convince others to go
along with it.  

Second, I think the factualness of B is in question.  A few people
have brought up examples of progress being made within Gentoo.  The
problem here appears to be that the progress being made is not in the
same areas where some people are looking.  Which brings up the
question: How is Gentoo falling short in your eyes?  Are you certain
that those specific areas are related to the non-existence of a boss?

Regards,
Aron

--
Aron Griffis
Gentoo Linux Developer


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  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-01-05 20:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-01-01  5:30 [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January Mike Frysinger
2006-01-01 23:35 ` Henrik Brix Andersen
2006-01-02  4:10   ` Kalin KOZHUHAROV
2006-01-03 16:05   ` Grant Goodyear
2006-01-04 22:06     ` Henrik Brix Andersen
2006-01-04 22:37       ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-04 22:51         ` Henrik Brix Andersen
2006-01-06  5:15     ` Mike Frysinger
2006-01-02 18:14 ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-02 18:33   ` Lares Moreau
2006-01-02 18:50     ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-02 19:03       ` Patrick Lauer
2006-01-02 19:28         ` Lares Moreau
2006-01-02 19:42           ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-03 17:19           ` Simon Stelling
2006-01-03 17:28             ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-03 17:50               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-03 18:09                 ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-03 18:17               ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-03 19:56                 ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-03 23:15                 ` Grant Goodyear
2006-01-05  3:58                 ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-05  3:57                   ` Greg KH
2006-01-05  4:31                     ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-05  5:39                       ` Alec Warner
2006-01-05  6:00                         ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-05  6:25                           ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-05 13:07                           ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 15:51                             ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-05 16:37                               ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 16:50                                 ` Stuart Herbert
2006-01-05 17:39                                 ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-05 13:31                           ` Andrew Gaffney
2006-01-05 13:33                           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05  6:05                         ` Corey Shields
2006-01-05  6:13                           ` Daniel Ostrow
2006-01-05  6:49                           ` Brian Harring
2006-01-05 10:26                             ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-05 10:36                               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05 13:48                                 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-05 19:03                               ` [gentoo-dev] " Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-13 13:52                             ` [gentoo-dev] " Paul de Vrieze
2006-01-05 13:18                           ` Andrew Gaffney
2006-01-05 13:22                             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05 13:58                               ` Andrew Gaffney
2006-01-05 13:52                           ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05  6:31                       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05 12:09                         ` Tom Martin
2006-01-05 12:24                           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05 14:40                             ` Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
2006-01-05 22:04                             ` Curtis Napier
2006-01-05 22:24                               ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 23:17                               ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-13 14:15                                 ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-01-05 12:51                       ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 14:22                         ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-05 14:35                           ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 14:59                             ` Stuart Herbert
2006-01-05 15:46                               ` Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
2006-01-05 17:42                                 ` Michael Cummings
2006-01-05 19:30                                 ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-06  1:09                                   ` Curtis Napier
2006-01-06  8:37                                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-06  9:59                                     ` Jon Portnoy
2006-01-06 18:46                                       ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-06 11:23                                     ` Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
2006-01-06 15:15                                       ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-06 15:26                                         ` Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
2006-01-06 15:33                                         ` Grobian
2006-01-06 17:05                                           ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-06 15:42                                         ` [gentoo-dev] " Jon Portnoy
2006-01-06 17:10                                         ` Grant Goodyear
2006-01-06 21:43                                           ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-05 15:42                             ` [gentoo-dev] " Lance Albertson
2006-01-05 16:20                               ` Patrick Lauer
2006-01-05 16:33                                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05 17:03                                   ` Patrick Lauer
2006-01-13 14:28                                     ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-01-13 14:26                                 ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-01-05 16:37                               ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 17:38                               ` Michael Cummings
2006-01-05 14:47                           ` Stuart Herbert
2006-01-05 20:09                       ` Aron Griffis [this message]
2006-01-13 14:32                         ` Paul de Vrieze
2006-01-06  1:03                       ` Greg KH
2006-01-06  4:23                         ` Philip Webb
2006-01-06  4:51                           ` Kurt Lieber
2006-01-06 10:10                           ` Patrick Lauer
2006-01-05 12:36                     ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 12:49                       ` Dan Meltzer
2006-01-05 13:07                         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-05 14:09                         ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 12:51                       ` Henrik Brix Andersen
2006-01-05 12:32                   ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-03 18:23               ` Simon Stelling
2006-01-03 19:59                 ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-03 18:12             ` Lares Moreau
2006-01-05  4:33               ` Andrew Muraco
2006-01-05 12:56                 ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-05 18:42                   ` Greg KH
2006-01-12 18:57                     ` Mike Frysinger
2006-01-02 19:33         ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-02 21:05           ` Chandler Carruth
2006-01-02 21:25             ` Andrew Muraco
2006-01-02 19:49         ` Grobian
2006-01-02 20:12           ` Patrick Lauer
2006-01-02 20:46             ` Grobian
2006-01-02 21:03               ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-02 21:52                 ` Patrick Lauer
2006-01-03  4:41                   ` Greg KH
2006-01-03 11:08                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2006-01-03 13:34                     ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-03 22:04                       ` Mark Loeser
2006-01-03 22:38                         ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-04  0:36                           ` Mark Loeser
2006-01-06 17:48                           ` Marius Mauch
2006-01-03  5:35   ` [gentoo-dev] " Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-03  8:54   ` Thierry Carrez
2006-01-03 16:35   ` Grant Goodyear
2006-01-03 20:09     ` Lance Albertson
2006-01-03 20:35       ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-03 20:50         ` Lares Moreau
2006-01-03 22:18       ` Grant Goodyear
2006-01-03 17:21   ` Sven Vermeulen
2006-01-03 17:41     ` Sven Vermeulen
2006-01-03 23:53     ` Moderated WIki -> ( Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January ) Alec Warner
2006-01-05 17:21   ` [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January Aron Griffis
2006-01-05 16:36 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2006-01-08  0:15 ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-08  0:35   ` Stuart Herbert
2006-01-08  2:56     ` Donnie Berkholz
2006-01-08 13:40     ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-08 14:01       ` Brian Harring
2006-01-08 14:49         ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-08 14:18       ` Paweł Madej
2006-01-08 14:25       ` Chris Gianelloni
2006-01-08  0:38   ` Brian Harring
2006-01-08 13:40     ` Carsten Lohrke
2006-01-08  2:57   ` Stephen Bennett
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-01-01  5:31 Mike Frysinger
2008-01-01  5:30 Mike Frysinger
2008-01-02 21:49 ` Piotr Jaroszyński
2008-01-03 13:02 ` Caleb Tennis
2008-01-03 23:54   ` Luca Barbato
2008-01-04  0:01     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2008-01-09 12:13   ` Fernando J. Pereda
2008-01-09 14:25     ` Caleb Tennis
2008-01-09 15:27       ` Fernando J. Pereda
2008-01-09 17:11         ` Richard Freeman
2008-01-09 17:18           ` Fernando J. Pereda
2008-01-09 17:18           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2008-01-09 19:54       ` Chris Gianelloni
2008-01-09 21:10         ` Caleb Tennis
2008-01-10  6:56         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2008-01-09 20:23     ` Peter Volkov
2009-01-01  5:30 Mike Frysinger
2010-01-01 13:31 Mike Frysinger
2010-01-01 23:05 ` Brian Harring
2010-01-02 18:21 ` Pacho Ramos
2010-01-07 22:59   ` Denis Dupeyron
2010-01-09 13:58     ` Pacho Ramos
2010-01-08  7:00   ` Mike Frysinger

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