[gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Kalin KOZHUHAROV]

Some time ago I sent a mail with the above subject and there was no response... Now I saw it went to
the gentoo-server ML :-( /me bad

So, resending some thoughts about catalyst here...

So far I have played with catalyst, lately catalyst2, since gentoo-1.4 was released. AFAIR, 3 or 4
times. More or less it ended up nowhere because of lack of _real_ examples and documentation (seems
to be getting better these days) combined with the long times to make a custom install CD starting
form stage1. Machines are getting faster and more (as numbers of boxen), distcc and ccache are
improving, so the latter problem has also been getting easier.

So what about the first problem? Working, real configs for gentoo releases?
I am thinking something of the kind, will it be possible/good/easy to start preparing a few configs
for the next release (2006.0 right?), complete configs starting from say
stage1-x86-2005.1-r1.tar.bz2 (as usually x86 is getting the most beating).

BTW, will next release use catalyst or catalyst2?

And as a good practice, leave all configs (for some time) in the source of catalyst sot that anybody
, more in practice than in theory, can produce an install CD.

The political aspect is that some "script kiddies" can start producing/selling/advertising "my 0wn
lin'x bootable CD", but hope we can catch them and educate them early that they'd better mention
"Gentoo" :-)

Customized bootable CD can be used NOT only for:
  Installing on "strange" hardware
  Upgrading some part of a release (kernel, gcc, security patches, etc.) quicker for new installs
  Changing some packages for others as default (vim for nano, iproute2 for ifconfig, mtr for
traceroute, etc.)
  Giving to a (close or girl-) friend to install in a snap on her exotic laptop
  Making a quick restore CD (this thread was about that)
  Making a bootable gcc/distcc node (to use those few remaining windoze machines in your office at
night, 'cause most don't support PXE netboot)
  Feel more Gentoo: "optimized and customized for just about any application or need"
  Make a small print firewall, still based on Gentoo
  one more reason
  yet another one
  [ add your 10 reasons here ]

So, what do you think about that?

Kalin.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Rajiv Aaron Manglani]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:

> So what about the first problem? Working, real configs for gentoo releases?
> I am thinking something of the kind, will it be possible/good/easy to start preparing a few configs
> for the next release (2006.0 right?), complete configs starting from say
> stage1-x86-2005.1-r1.tar.bz2 (as usually x86 is getting the most beating).

emerge -av livecd-specs livecd-kconfigs
is a good starting point.

> And as a good practice, leave all configs (for some time) in the source of catalyst sot that anybody
> , more in practice than in theory, can produce an install CD.

catalyst 2.0_rc12 at least installs lots of examples in 
/usr/share/doc/catalyst-*/examples

> Customized bootable CD can be used NOT only for:
>  Installing on "strange" hardware

i'm using catalyst to generate install cds for a custom medical device.

hang out in #gentoo-releng ... thats where i learned all about catalyst.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 11:05 -0500, Rajiv Aaron Manglani wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:
> 
> > So what about the first problem? Working, real configs for gentoo releases?
> > I am thinking something of the kind, will it be possible/good/easy to start preparing a few configs
> > for the next release (2006.0 right?), complete configs starting from say
> > stage1-x86-2005.1-r1.tar.bz2 (as usually x86 is getting the most beating).
> 
> emerge -av livecd-specs livecd-kconfigs
> is a good starting point.

While these are for the 2005.1 release, they are still perfectly valid
for use in catalyst 2.0.

> 
> > And as a good practice, leave all configs (for some time) in the source of catalyst sot that anybody
> > , more in practice than in theory, can produce an install CD.
> 
> catalyst 2.0_rc12 at least installs lots of examples in 
> /usr/share/doc/catalyst-*/examples

Correct.  The examples are probably the best documentation out there.

The simple truth is that we have been making so many changes to the code
over the last year or so that it has been impossible to keep up with the
web-based documentation.  We'd rather have working code than pretty
documents.  Sorry guys.

> > Customized bootable CD can be used NOT only for:
> >  Installing on "strange" hardware
> 
> i'm using catalyst to generate install cds for a custom medical device.
> 
> hang out in #gentoo-releng ... thats where i learned all about catalyst.

Please, please, please... do *not* join #gentoo-releng unless you want
to watch us talk.  We are nearing release times which means that
*nobody* that is not working on an official Gentoo release will have
voice in that channel.  The channel is *not* a catalyst support channel.
There is a mailing list for that express purpose.  We don't need a flood
of people coming in asking how to use the application while we're busy
trying to get a release out the door.  If you want catalyst help or just
to discuss catalyst, please join the gentoo-catalyst mailing list.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
x86 Architecture Team
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Kalin KOZHUHAROV]

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 11:05 -0500, Rajiv Aaron Manglani wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> So what about the first problem? Working, real configs for gentoo releases? I am thinking
>>> something of the kind, will it be possible/good/easy to start preparing a few configs for the
>>> next release (2006.0 right?), complete configs starting from say stage1-x86-2005.1-r1.tar.bz2
>>> (as usually x86 is getting the most beating).
>> 
>> emerge -av livecd-specs livecd-kconfigs is a good starting point.
> 
> 
> While these are for the 2005.1 release, they are still perfectly valid for use in catalyst 2.0.

Aha! That was the missing piece of the puzzle :-)

[unsnip]
>>> BTW, will next release use catalyst or catalyst2?
[/unsnip]

So?

>>> And as a good practice, leave all configs (for some time) in the source of catalyst sot that
>>> anybody , more in practice than in theory, can produce an install CD.
>> 
>> catalyst 2.0_rc12 at least installs lots of examples in /usr/share/doc/catalyst-*/examples
> 
> 
> Correct.  The examples are probably the best documentation out there.
> 
> The simple truth is that we have been making so many changes to the code over the last year or so
> that it has been impossible to keep up with the web-based documentation.  We'd rather have
> working code than pretty documents.  Sorry guys.

Yes, thes examples are quite good, however as I said before, real (=working) examples weere needed.
(note to /me => `emerge -s livecd && emerge -a livecd-specs livecd-kconfigs`)

>>> Customized bootable CD can be used NOT only for: Installing on "strange" hardware
>> 
>> i'm using catalyst to generate install cds for a custom medical device.
>> 
>> hang out in #gentoo-releng ... thats where i learned all about catalyst.
> 
> 
> Please, please, please... do *not* join #gentoo-releng unless you want to watch us talk.  We are
> nearing release times which means that *nobody* that is not working on an official Gentoo release
> will have voice in that channel.  The channel is *not* a catalyst support channel. There is a
> mailing list for that express purpose.  We don't need a flood of people coming in asking how to
> use the application while we're busy trying to get a release out the door.  If you want catalyst
> help or just to discuss catalyst, please join the gentoo-catalyst mailing list.

"OK" and $point = "taken";
@blabla = join {channel => "#gentoo-releng", nic => "korokoro", mode => "listen"} or die;
while(<@blabla>)
{
	&listen;
	&RTFM;
	&emerge;
}

But what about helping by "working on an official Gentoo release"?
Seems, that you are having a tough time...

/ No, I am not a dev, but that was on my "wish/TODO list" for 2006 :-) /

Kalin.

-- 
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+-> http://ThinRope.net/ <-+
|[ ______________________ ]|
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 04:00 +0900, Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:
> [unsnip]
> >>> BTW, will next release use catalyst or catalyst2?
> [/unsnip]
> 
> So?

We will be using catalyst 2.0 (or better).

> But what about helping by "working on an official Gentoo release"?

Learn catalyst intricately.  The main problems that we have are
ebuild-related, so a very strong working knowledge of ebuilds are a
must, along with the ability to troubleshoot and patch python and bash
for catalyst/genkernel.  For this release, there won't be enough time.
While testing is a major part of release-building, it is also the
easiest.

> Seems, that you are having a tough time...

Not so much...  I have had quite a few volunteers for testers and even
some build volunteers, but nobody so far to make sure stuff works
*before* we get into the release.

Want to help out?  Make sure all of the base system works on every
architecture you can get your hands on from a bootstrap.  Make sure the
same works from a 2005.1 (or 2005.1-r1) stage3 to build a stage1
tarball.  Those two places are where we hit the majority of our bugs
during a release.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
x86 Architecture Team
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Tim Yamin]

On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 02:33:13PM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > But what about helping by "working on an official Gentoo release"?

Having somebody around to help test LiveCDs and stages is always a good
thing. We need both developers and users to do this as the architecture
coordinator can always only do so much (limited hardware, time, or
otherwise).

Interested? Let me know and I'll inform you closer to release time.

Thanks.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Catalyst{,2} and 2006.0

[Kumba]

Kalin KOZHUHAROV wrote:
> Yes, thes examples are quite good, however as I said before, real (=working) examples weere needed.
> (note to /me => `emerge -s livecd && emerge -a livecd-specs livecd-kconfigs`)

Working specs can be found in our ViewCVS in gentoo/src/releng/specs.  Therein 
are contained the specs used to build prior releases for most archs.


--Kumba

-- 
Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees

"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands 
do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."  --Elrond
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