From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ESgSZ-0001EY-Qk for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:52:20 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id j9KJmJPm007547; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:48:19 GMT Received: from sa5.bezeqint.net (sa5.bezeqint.net [192.115.104.19]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id j9KJgVSj011998 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:42:31 GMT Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sa5.bezeqint.net (Bezeq International SMTP out Mail Server) with ESMTP id 401B834139 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:42:40 +0200 (IST) Received: from sa5.bezeqint.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sa5 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05266-07 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:42:37 +0200 (IST) Received: from alpha.danarmak.homelinux.net (unknown [81.218.66.40]) by sa5.bezeqint.net (Bezeq International SMTP out Mail Server) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:42:37 +0200 (IST) Received: by alpha.danarmak.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 1011) id 4EBAF188377; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:07:58 +0200 (GMT-2) Received: from beta.danarmak.homelinux.net (beta.danarmak.homelinux.net [10.0.3.86]) by alpha.danarmak.homelinux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8537518836C for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:07:50 +0200 (GMT-2) From: Dan Armak Organization: Gentoo Technologies, Inc. To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] modular X - 7.0 RC1 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:44:52 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.92 References: <4357432E.2020009@gentoo.org> <200510202108.33776.danarmak@gentoo.org> <4357ED4D.1040809@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4357ED4D.1040809@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4090051.qmLoR2NFat"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200510202144.52523.danarmak@gentoo.org> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at bezeqint.net X-Archives-Salt: 4bab6fa0-a17d-4310-8916-bc91ae0278d2 X-Archives-Hash: 52d6fb60df6cb0850132e92814aaf8c0 --nextPart4090051.qmLoR2NFat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Your mua or some gateway has inserted really ugly linebreaks in the text yo= u=20 quoted. I tried to make it prettier. On Thursday 20 October 2005 21:17, Donnie Berkholz wrote: > I'm not aware of any. The only similar thing I'm aware of is a few > incredibly broken packages that require Xvfb at build time. > > If there are packages that need to run any X server at build time, > they're even more broken. Agreed. > | Firstly, as I said in my other replies, this would change the current=20 > | meaning of the X USE flag. The original meaning would stay without a fl= ag. > | Today it means 'enable support for clienside X11'. You want to make it > | mean 'install X11 server'. If I'm building a headless box without an X11 > | server, but I do want to emerge KDE and run it over ssh -Y from another= =20 > | box, I need two useflags to specify this. But even if we introduce a ne= w=20 > | USE flag 'Xserver', on by default where X is on by default, and used as= =20 > | you describe above, the problems I describe below will remain. > Does it really mean that? How about all of the X USE flags in font > ebuilds? They mean basically what I'm saying. Until today we've only had a single xorg-x11 ebuild. So all the ebuilds tod= ay=20 have DEPEND=3D"X? (virtual/x11 )", which includes an X server. But they onl= y=20 really need the clientside libs+headers and so (I argued) what they /really= /=20 mean is 'enable support for clientside X', because the presence of the serv= er=20 doesn't affect them in any way. But forget about what the flag is supposed to mean today. How can my scenar= io=20 above be resolved without using two useflags? > | Secondly, there can be more than one X11 server (kdrive, etc). > | Depending on xorg-server is bad. If anything, we should introduce a > | virtual/x11-server. I'm just explicitly noting that you didn't comment on this. > | Thirdly, it's a 'convenience dep': whether xorg-server is installed or > | not won't affect the behavior of KDE in any way (given a working DISPLAY > | setting). > > Right, the intent is to basically say "I'm part of the 90% of users who > has X installed locally and wants things to just work." They will just work if they just 'emerge xorg-server'. Just as they need to= =20 manually 'emerge KDE' and probably 'emerge openoffice' and mplayer and=20 mozilla and lots of other things. They have to do all this when installing = a=20 new system anyway, so my opinion is that adding an extra manual emerge=20 instruction to the handbook isn't any more bother to them and makes things = a=20 lot easier for us. Gentoo has a tradition of minimalism in the system package list and so on.= =20 It's against the usual and correct Gentoo behavior, IMHO, to install (big!)= =20 stuff by default just because 90% of the users want it. A desktop sub-profi= le=20 or meta-ebuild would be a better tool for this. > |>We will still install some fonts, but not all, and I'll note that in the > |>metabuilds text. > | > | Which ones? Selected how? I'm asking because I don't want to work too > | hard on deciding which fonts KDE should depend on :-) > > Selected arbitrarily by the x11 team based on requirement, common use > and prettiness factor. Probably font-misc-misc, font-bh-ttf, > font-adobe-utopia-type1 and maybe some others that are brought to my > attention. Which other new font ebuilds were included in the monolithic xorg-x11 ebuil= d?=20 media-fonts/font-*? =2D-=20 Dan Armak Gentoo Linux developer (KDE) Public GPG key: http://dev.gentoo.org/~danarmak/danarmak-gpg-public.key =46ingerprint: DD70 DBF9 E3D4 6CB9 2FDD 0069 508D 9143 8D5F 8951 --nextPart4090051.qmLoR2NFat Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBDV/O0UI2RQ41fiVERAqoWAJ9SopmfOJFBlO8W8KUSOl98sf1MlQCffkQT yy/HrY2a6OGVCw1msUj/lN8= =9NID -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4090051.qmLoR2NFat-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list