[gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Dan Meltzer]

Hi, I would just like some clarification if at all possible.

Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I ran
into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that emerge was
supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user interaction should
take place in ebuild ... config.

Apparantly one of us is {in,}correct, but I cannot find any
documentation although I'm fairly sure I have read it..

Opinions?

Dan

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:21:58 -0400 Dan Meltzer
<parallelgrapefruit@gmail.com> wrote:
| Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I ran
| into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that emerge was
| supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user interaction should
| take place in ebuild ... config.

emerge is non-interactive.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Fernando J. Pereda]

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On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 06:41:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:21:58 -0400 Dan Meltzer
| <parallelgrapefruit@gmail.com> wrote:
| | Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I ran
| | into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that emerge was
| | supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user interaction should
| | take place in ebuild ... config.
| 
| emerge is non-interactive.

Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
tests if I'm not mistaken

Cheers,
Ferdy

-- 
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail)
20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED  ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Dan Meltzer]

This is what I have found thanks to research of friendly people!

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/29810 (pkg_config
only interactive)
and, somewhere in dev manual it does say test can be interactive
also.. not sure about that though
On 10/2/05, Fernando J. Pereda <ferdy@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 06:41:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> | On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:21:58 -0400 Dan Meltzer
> | <parallelgrapefruit@gmail.com> wrote:
> | | Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I ran
> | | into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that emerge was
> | | supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user interaction should
> | | take place in ebuild ... config.
> |
> | emerge is non-interactive.
>
> Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
> are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
> tests if I'm not mistaken
>
> Cheers,
> Ferdy
>
> --
> Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
> Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail)
> 20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED  ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4
>
>
>

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Maurice van der Pot]

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On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 07:50:53PM +0200, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
> Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
> are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
> tests if I'm not mistaken

Even if they succeed? The point of test is to get some additional
confidence that the package actually works. It doesn't mean you want to
be bothered for nothing.

Maurice.

-- 
Maurice van der Pot

Gentoo Linux Developer   griffon26@gentoo.org     http://www.gentoo.org
Creator of BiteMe!       griffon26@kfk4ever.com   http://www.kfk4ever.com


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Fernando J. Pereda]

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On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 08:01:08PM +0200, Maurice van der Pot wrote:
| On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 07:50:53PM +0200, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
| > Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
| > are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
| > tests if I'm not mistaken
| 
| Even if they succeed? The point of test is to get some additional
| confidence that the package actually works. It doesn't mean you want to
| be bothered for nothing.

I can't remember if they failed or not, but if the test failed then the
ebuild should just die, no?

I just don't feel like recompiling it again :)

Cheers,
Ferdy

-- 
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail)
20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED  ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4

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Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Jakub Moc]

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2.10.2005, 20:13:52, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 08:01:08PM +0200, Maurice van der Pot wrote:
> | On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 07:50:53PM +0200, Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
| >> Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
| >> are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
| >> tests if I'm not mistaken
> | 
> | Even if they succeed? The point of test is to get some additional
> | confidence that the package actually works. It doesn't mean you want to
> | be bothered for nothing.

> I can't remember if they failed or not, but if the test failed then the
> ebuild should just die, no?

> I just don't feel like recompiling it again :)

> Cheers, > Ferdy

No, the ebuild does not die, there are things known to be broken in those
tests. About 10-15 tests always fail, IIRC. Otherwise, it's Bug 59337.

-- 
Best regards,

 Jakub Moc
 mailto:jakub@gentoo.org
 GPG signature: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
 Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95  B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E

 ... still no signature ;)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 19:50:53 +0200 "Fernando J. Pereda"
<ferdy@gentoo.org> wrote:
| On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 06:41:47PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| | On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:21:58 -0400 Dan Meltzer
| | <parallelgrapefruit@gmail.com> wrote:
| | | Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I
| | | ran into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that
| | | emerge was supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user
| | | interaction should take place in ebuild ... config.
| | 
| | emerge is non-interactive.
| 
| Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
| are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
| tests if I'm not mistaken

Yup. There're quite a few broken test packages in the tree. Another
common problem is calling wget from inside test. Mostly this comes from
src_test being a fairly recent feature... When some of the ebuilds in
question were written it didn't exist.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Fernando J. Pereda]

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On Sun, Oct 02, 2005 at 07:02:02PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| | Also when FEATURES="test" ? In such case the mod_php and php packages
| | are broken. They ask you to save, reject or send the result of the
| | tests if I'm not mistaken
| 
| Yup. There're quite a few broken test packages in the tree. Another
| common problem is calling wget from inside test. Mostly this comes from
| src_test being a fairly recent feature... When some of the ebuilds in
| question were written it didn't exist.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

-- 
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail)
20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED  ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 13:21 -0400, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> Hi, I would just like some clarification if at all possible.
> 
> Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I ran
> into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that emerge was
> supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user interaction should
> take place in ebuild ... config.
> 
> Apparantly one of us is {in,}correct, but I cannot find any
> documentation although I'm fairly sure I have read it..

Ebuilds *should* be non-interactive.  There are a few exceptions to
this, such as ones triggered by USE flags (ala webapp-config.eclass) and
ones triggered by necessity (ala games from CD).

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
x86 Architecture Team
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Georgi Georgiev]

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maillog: 03/10/2005-08:56:57(-0400): Chris Gianelloni types
> On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 13:21 -0400, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> > Hi, I would just like some clarification if at all possible.
> > 
> > Recently, while testing bugzilla-2.18.4 for x86 (bug # 107796) I ran
> > into some interactivity.  I was under the impression that emerge was
> > supposed to be completely autonomous, and any user interaction should
> > take place in ebuild ... config.
> > 
> > Apparantly one of us is {in,}correct, but I cannot find any
> > documentation although I'm fairly sure I have read it..
> 
> Ebuilds *should* be non-interactive.  There are a few exceptions to
> this, such as ones triggered by USE flags (ala webapp-config.eclass) and
> ones triggered by necessity (ala games from CD).

Does it seem like it is time for RESTRICT=interactive. Such ebuilds
would refuse to emerge if stdout is not a tty. If only there was
use-flag based RESTRICT...

-- 
()   Georgi Georgiev   () Harrison's Postulate: For every action,    ()
()    chutz@gg3.net    () there is an equal and opposite criticism.  ()
()  +81(90)2877-8845   ()                                            ()

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:15:37 +0900 Georgi Georgiev <chutz@gg3.net> wrote:
| Does it seem like it is time for RESTRICT=interactive. Such ebuilds
| would refuse to emerge if stdout is not a tty. If only there was
| use-flag based RESTRICT...

No, because then that would encourage even more people to abuse the
system and write incorrect ebuilds.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Jan Kundrát]

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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:15:37 +0900 Georgi Georgiev <chutz@gg3.net> wrote:
> | Does it seem like it is time for RESTRICT=interactive. Such ebuilds
> | would refuse to emerge if stdout is not a tty. If only there was
> | use-flag based RESTRICT...
> 
> No, because then that would encourage even more people to abuse the
> system and write incorrect ebuilds.

IMHO this could be enforced by some policy ("don't use
RESTRICT=interactive unless you really need it and some_group has given
you the ok")...

Cheers,
-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Patrick Lauer]

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On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 19:39 +0200, Jan Kundrát wrote:
> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:15:37 +0900 Georgi Georgiev <chutz@gg3.net> wrote:
> > | Does it seem like it is time for RESTRICT=interactive. Such ebuilds
> > | would refuse to emerge if stdout is not a tty. If only there was
> > | use-flag based RESTRICT...
> > 
> > No, because then that would encourage even more people to abuse the
> > system and write incorrect ebuilds.
> 
> IMHO this could be enforced by some policy ("don't use
> RESTRICT=interactive unless you really need it and some_group has given
> you the ok")...
No, it shouldn't. interactive ebuilds make remote updating very
time-consuming (you have to check wether it wants you to interact with i
or not yet) and are usually not needed - just ask the user to run ebuild
foo config (or whatever does thw job) manually.
-- 
Stand still, and let the rest of the universe move

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Brian Harring]

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On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 07:39:05PM +0200, Jan Kundr?t wrote:
> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:15:37 +0900 Georgi Georgiev <chutz@gg3.net> wrote:
> > | Does it seem like it is time for RESTRICT=interactive. Such ebuilds
> > | would refuse to emerge if stdout is not a tty. If only there was
> > | use-flag based RESTRICT...
> > 
> > No, because then that would encourage even more people to abuse the
> > system and write incorrect ebuilds.
> 
> IMHO this could be enforced by some policy ("don't use
> RESTRICT=interactive unless you really need it and some_group has given
> you the ok")...

Ebuilds are non-interactive compile/install... that's the design, and 
intention of them.

I don't like opening the possibility for people to use it, mainly due 
to the fact
A) give me an instance when it's required for compile
B) interactive build scripts are idiotic (writing expect scripts for a 
tinderbox setup is proof enough of this)
C) 15 hour upgrade/build, hanging an hour into it is going to be an 
ass biter.

Yes, we can slap some warning into the UI tools for C, but people will 
still miss it on occasion, and it'll piss them off something fierce 
(just the same as a single failure in building results in emerge 
stopping).

It's a bad idea from where I sit.
~harring

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 13:23 -0500, Brian Harring wrote:
> C) 15 hour upgrade/build, hanging an hour into it is going to be an 
> ass biter.

This is actually why I've been doing something I would normally *not* do
and have been breaking up some games ebuilds that require a CD into a
$foo and $foo-data set.  That way the on-disc data is only ever
retrieved once, and isn't required for subsequent upgrades.

(yeah, doesn't help on -e, though)
-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
x86 Architecture Team
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Jan Kundrát]

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Brian Harring wrote:
> Ebuilds are non-interactive compile/install... that's the design, and 
> intention of them.

Sure, I thought that RESTRICT=interactive would just tell the user that
she would have to provide some feedback in cases like those that
wolf31o2 mentioned ("games from CD").

> I don't like opening the possibility for people to use it, mainly due 
> to the fact
> A) give me an instance when it's required for compile
> B) interactive build scripts are idiotic (writing expect scripts for a 
> tinderbox setup is proof enough of this)
> C) 15 hour upgrade/build, hanging an hour into it is going to be an 
> ass biter.

ok.

Cheers,
-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Interactive emerge

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 17:51 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:15:37 +0900 Georgi Georgiev <chutz@gg3.net> wrote:
> | Does it seem like it is time for RESTRICT=interactive. Such ebuilds
> | would refuse to emerge if stdout is not a tty. If only there was
> | use-flag based RESTRICT...
> 
> No, because then that would encourage even more people to abuse the
> system and write incorrect ebuilds.

CD_ROOT=/path/to/ut2004 emerge ut2004

That is non-interactive, assuming all the data is copied to that path.
So interactivity isn't guaranteed.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
x86 Architecture Team
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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