From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E85Ii-0004bR-0S for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:09:00 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j7P07BOJ032219; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:07:11 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [134.68.220.30]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j7P0545V018766; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:05:05 GMT Received: from cpe-65-26-255-237.wi.res.rr.com ([65.26.255.237] helo=nightcrawler) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1E85Fz-0007IF-Ug; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:06:12 +0000 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:04:42 -0500 From: Brian Harring To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: gentoo-core@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-dev] crap use flags in the profiles Message-ID: <20050825000442.GC1701@nightcrawler> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.8i X-Archives-Salt: ea06f34d-38ae-4417-ac50-614c9e28f75d X-Archives-Hash: 9c2a69e84178ab25c9ccf052c49f7190 --4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hola all. Out of curiousity, since for once my portage installation is *not*=20 filtering out all flags but my own, I'm wondering why it is that the=20 system default now holds a lot of use flags that aren't really related=20 to the system set of packages. See, from my standpoint cascaded profiles exist for the sake of being=20 able to build up chunks, and merge them together. If you want a=20 desktop profile, hey, easy, just point it at the default, and import=20 that. If you want a server profile that doesn't have the crap 101 use=20 flags that are defaulted, you just define a profile there. The common point between the two being that you depend on a minimal,=20 "this is the base profile" that is the common points, and overload=20 what you need to in the specialized profile. Iow, you jam all of the=20 crap use flags into a desktop profile, rather then forcing people to=20 do -* So, fex, the following flags are rather desktop specific- alsa=20 arts=20 avi=20 bitmap-fonts=20 cups=20 eds emboss (why the hell is "European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite" a profile default? Seems extremely specialized) encode=20 fortran=20 foomaticdb=20 gnome=20 gstreamer=20 gtk=20 gtk2=20 imlib=20 kde=20 mad=20 mikmod=20 motif=20 mp3=20 mpeg=20 ogg=20 oggvorbis=20 oss=20 png=20 qt=20 quicktime=20 sdl=20 spell=20 truetype=20 truetype-fonts=20 type1-fonts=20 vorbis=20 xml2=20 xmms=20 That's pretty much the entire list of flags in the defaults. Again, returning to the USE=3D"-*" arguement, yes, they can go that=20 route. It's also kind of a crappy arguement dodging out of the fact that= =20 progressive bloat going into what is effectively a base release=20 profile, when subprofiles would be better suited. You use the capabilities cascaded profiles give you, and you can serve=20 both camps; those who want bloat, those who don't. Question is why aren't we? Yes work is required, but everything=20 requires work- is there some stumbling block that makes the work=20 involved excessive? Personally, I run with -* not due to filtering out profile crap, but=20 for filtering out autouse; I'm a bit disgusted by what the -* has been=20 protecting me from. In bug 93067, it's described that our default has=20 always been to aim for desktop; well, depends on your definition of=20 desktop. I don't recall having kde/gtk crap turned on by default when I first=20 showed up. Maybe I'm missing something; regardless, the defaults=20 (which should be minimal from my standpoint) are anything but. So... again. What is holding us back from using existing capabilities=20 to seperate this? If it's not perfectly clean doing it, what do you=20 require to make it easy/clean to do so? Granted this phrase has been beat to fricking death, but we are about=20 choice. Again, yes, -* is a choice, it's also a rather nasty choice=20 since the user must watch the profile's themselves and duplicate the=20 use flags from there if they want the 'true' defaults. That's shoving=20 work off onto users when an alternative approach (subprofiles) could=20 handle it globally. So yeah, subprofiles, reasons why not? My slightly flamey 2 cents ~harring --4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDDQsavdBxRoA3VU0RAjBRAKCnSXTxKibkOgiXulhqnp9iNNOr2wCgo+vn Ip1ex9CgUHXxkjyVit0Ht8g= =xNoN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4ZLFUWh1odzi/v6L-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list