[gentoo-dev] Gstreamer + Use Flags

[gentoo-dev] Gstreamer + Use Flags

[Fabian Zeindl]

Hi

Some time ago I opened a bug concerning Gstreamer's useflags, which are
handled completely unlogical at the moment. *every* package depending on the
gstreamer multimediaframework brings it's own use flags for gstreamer-plugins,
instead of putting the use flags centrally in the gstreamer package itself.

I know this has been discussed before on bugzilla and the lists, and I read
through all discussions I found. I certainly don't want to waste any
developer's time with this, but the current handling of this is unlogical and
not "the gentoo way". I think that many users share my opinion here although
some devs (foser e.g.) don't agree with this.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100872 and
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84663 decribe the problem.

So my proposal is putting UseFlags for additional GstreamerPlugins in the
Gstreamerpackage and remove it in the packages depending on Gstreamer (totem
for example).

Benefits of this:
 * you have ONE place where you can decide what gstreamer plugins to install
 * you don't have 'wasted useflags'. It's not logical if I compile amarok
without mad and still can use mad, cause another application already used this
useflag...
 * you don't have to reemerge EVERY single application that has gstreamer
useflags, when you want to install ONE additional gstreamerplugin, that's
completely UNNECESSARY
 * people don't get confused when using xine and useflags doesn't have an
impact. (mp3 doesn't work -> recompile amarok with xine and mad -> mp3 still
doesn't work cause mad useflag doesn't influence xine)
 
CONS:
 * you have to understand that you use gstreamer: when you want to have
additional capabilities simple recompiling of amarok (p.e.) doesn't work, you
have to recompile gstreamer or emerge -uDN world

For me the PROS outweigh the CONS. What do you say?

greetings and hoping that I don't annoy anyone with this mail

fabian


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I want a new mistake, lose is more than hesitate.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gstreamer + Use Flags

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Tuesday 16 August 2005 12:38, Fabian Zeindl wrote:
> So my proposal is putting UseFlags for additional GstreamerPlugins in the
> Gstreamerpackage and remove it in the packages depending on Gstreamer
> (totem for example).
While I can't decide anything about this as it's up to GStreamer herd, I'd 
like to say that this proposal has all my approval.
I can tell as sound member (amaroK) and video too (Kaffeine now): adding 
useflags to packages to add mere "fake dependencies" doesn't seem to be 
user-oriented at all.
As they all depends on gstreamer-plugins, that seems to be the most feasible 
place where to put the useflags.

But as I said, I can't do anything about this.
-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
Gentoo Developer - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
(Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Gentoo/AMD64, Sound, PAM)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gstreamer + Use Flags

[Fabian Zeindl]

Since nobody except Diego replied on my mail a week ago: 
Is there another way besides filing bugs and mailing the list to make a
proposal which gets investigated? I think many users are concerned about that
gstreamer "oddness", and I didn't find one good reason while reading through
bugzilla of not doing this the way I proposed.

greetings
fabian zeindl

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:38:47 +0200, Fabian Zeindl wrote
> Hi
> 
> Some time ago I opened a bug concerning Gstreamer's useflags, which are
> handled completely unlogical at the moment. *every* package 
> depending on the gstreamer multimediaframework brings it's own use 
> flags for gstreamer-plugins, instead of putting the use flags 
> centrally in the gstreamer package itself.
> 
> I know this has been discussed before on bugzilla and the lists, and 
> I read through all discussions I found. I certainly don't want to 
> waste any developer's time with this, but the current handling of 
> this is unlogical and not "the gentoo way". I think that many users 
> share my opinion here although some devs (foser e.g.) don't agree 
> with this.
> 
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100872 and
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84663 decribe the problem.
> 
> So my proposal is putting UseFlags for additional GstreamerPlugins 
> in the Gstreamerpackage and remove it in the packages depending on 
> Gstreamer (totem for example).
> 
> Benefits of this:
>  * you have ONE place where you can decide what gstreamer plugins to 
> install * you don't have 'wasted useflags'. It's not logical if I 
> compile amarok without mad and still can use mad, cause another 
> application already used this useflag... * you don't have to 
> reemerge EVERY single application that has gstreamer useflags, when 
> you want to install ONE additional gstreamerplugin, that's 
> completely UNNECESSARY * people don't get confused when using xine 
> and useflags doesn't have an impact. (mp3 doesn't work -> recompile 
> amarok with xine and mad -> mp3 still doesn't work cause mad useflag 
> doesn't influence xine)
> 
> CONS:
>  * you have to understand that you use gstreamer: when you want to have
> additional capabilities simple recompiling of amarok (p.e.) doesn't 
> work, you have to recompile gstreamer or emerge -uDN world
> 
> For me the PROS outweigh the CONS. What do you say?
> 
> greetings and hoping that I don't annoy anyone with this mail
> 
> fabian
> 
> -- 
>  ... I want something good to die for
> To make it beautiful to live.
> I want a new mistake, lose is more than hesitate.
> Do you believe it in your head?
> 
>           - Queens of the Stone Age - "Go with the Flow"
> 
> I prefer signed/encrypted Mail: 
> Fingerprint: CFE8 38A7 0BC4 3CB0 E454  FA8D 04F9 B3B6 E02D 25BA
> 
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list


-- 
 ... I want something good to die for
To make it beautiful to live.
I want a new mistake, lose is more than hesitate.
Do you believe it in your head?

          - Queens of the Stone Age - "Go with the Flow"

I prefer signed/encrypted Mail: 
Fingerprint: CFE8 38A7 0BC4 3CB0 E454  FA8D 04F9 B3B6 E02D 25BA

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gstreamer + Use Flags

[Brian Harring]

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On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 09:21:50AM +0200, Fabian Zeindl wrote:
> Since nobody except Diego replied on my mail a week ago: 
> Is there another way besides filing bugs and mailing the list to make a
> proposal which gets investigated? I think many users are concerned about that
> gstreamer "oddness", and I didn't find one good reason while reading through
> bugzilla of not doing this the way I proposed.
As stated in 100872, any solution involving centralizing the use flags 
on gstreamer requires use deps.

Can't centralize the use flags on gstreamer till they're available, 
without doing something QA has every right to wedgie you for 
(build_with_use die's in pkg_setup).
~harring

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gstreamer + Use Flags

[Fabian Zeindl]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:33:53 -0500, Brian Harring wrote
> As stated in 100872, any solution involving centralizing the use 
> flags on gstreamer requires use deps.
> 
> Can't centralize the use flags on gstreamer till they're available, 
> without doing something QA has every right to wedgie you for 
> (build_with_use die's in pkg_setup).

Not at all. As you see in the answer from Carsten Lohrke on 100872
centralizing use flags has nothing to do with use deps in this case (gstreamer).

"The point is that as soon as a plugin is available to one application it's
available to all - despite of having the corresponding use flagged dependency
set or not. That's a) illogical and b) when users uninstall a plugin they did
not depend on for one application, but are used to it in between because it
was invoked by another ebuild, you run into exactly the same problem (and
possible "bug" reports): Users who don't know how their applications with
gstreamer work."

fabian


-- 
 ... I want something good to die for
To make it beautiful to live.
I want a new mistake, lose is more than hesitate.
Do you believe it in your head?

          - Queens of the Stone Age - "Go with the Flow"

I prefer signed/encrypted Mail (even if I can't write it myself at 
the moment due to OpenWebMail deficiencies):
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