[gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Mike Frysinger]

suggestion:
stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
messages.  if you really want to keep a commit message out of the changelog, 
then we come up with a simple policy of prefixing the message with a period 
(to keep it hidden :P).

logic:
 - i'm lazy
 - i hate typing the samething twice (yes, bash scripting with echangelog can 
kind of take care of this) ... it doesnt handle if you want to use different 
commit messages for different files
 - shrinks ChangeLog size for packages which have been around a very long time
 - forces cvs log messages to actually be worthwhile to read and makes 
browsing cvs history much nicer (it's very easy to look at the differences 
between two files and match up a good commit message rather than trying to 
figure out what message in the ChangeLog goes with it, assuming there is one)
 - easily standardize ChangeLog format wrt to header, copyrights, licensing, 
message formatting, name/date format
 - generate dates in UTC down to the second rather than having devs hand type 
them in their local timezone for just the current day
 - maybe some other things i havent thought of
 - i'm lazy
-mike
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Kito]

On Aug 16, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:

>
> logic:
>  - i'm lazy
>  - i hate typing the samething twice (yes, bash scripting with  
> echangelog can
> kind of take care of this) ... it doesnt handle if you want to use  
> different
> commit messages for different files
>  - shrinks ChangeLog size for packages which have been around a  
> very long time
>  - forces cvs log messages to actually be worthwhile to read and makes
> browsing cvs history much nicer (it's very easy to look at the  
> differences
> between two files and match up a good commit message rather than  
> trying to
> figure out what message in the ChangeLog goes with it, assuming  
> there is one)
>  - easily standardize ChangeLog format wrt to header, copyrights,  
> licensing,
> message formatting, name/date format
>  - generate dates in UTC down to the second rather than having devs  
> hand type
> them in their local timezone for just the current day
>  - maybe some other things i havent thought of
>  - i'm lazy

Me likey.

--Kito

> -mike
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 06:18:29PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
> automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
> messages.  if you really want to keep a commit message out of the changelog, 
> then we come up with a simple policy of prefixing the message with a period 
> (to keep it hidden :P).
I'm in favour of this. As an upstream developer of phpMyAdmin, we've
used this procedure for a long time, using cvs2cl for this purpose (see
my name in the cvs2cl contributers list as well ;-).

We'd need to add a bit of code to put in the new ebuild extra stuff,
but other than that, it should work out of the box.

> logic:
Question:
- are CVS commit messages UTF8 safe?

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
E-Mail     : robbat2@orbis-terrarum.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Mike Frysinger]

On Tuesday 16 August 2005 07:03 pm, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 06:18:29PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > logic:
> Question:
> - are CVS commit messages UTF8 safe?

GLEP 31 came to mind when i was writing the e-mail but i forgot to mention 
it ... maybe ciaran can hop in here
-mike
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:18:21 -0400 Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Tuesday 16 August 2005 07:03 pm, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
| > On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 06:18:29PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
| > > logic:
| > Question:
| > - are CVS commit messages UTF8 safe?
| 
| GLEP 31 came to mind when i was writing the e-mail but i forgot to
| mention it ... maybe ciaran can hop in here

GLEP 31 is withdrawn until Gentoo gets some means of removing commit
access from people who say "nyah nyah I don't feel like following the
rules and so I'll just carry on breaking stuff as I see fit". As it
stands I've been told by various people that they have no interest in
ensuring that their commits are UTF-8 safe (even if there's an
automated check that warns them when they're about to break something),
and I don't consider it fair to force lots of repoman warnings upon
other developers who *do* care about that kind of thing who just happen
to be the next person to touch a package that got broken.

*shrug* So, if you want to be nice and use UTF-8, please do so. CVS is
fine with it. Chances are whoever writes the CVS -> changelog tool will
get it wrong with text wrapping at least once, but it's easy enough to
fix.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Jason Stubbs]

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On Wednesday 17 August 2005 08:38, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> GLEP 31 is withdrawn until Gentoo gets some means of removing commit
> access from people who say "nyah nyah I don't feel like following the
> rules and so I'll just carry on breaking stuff as I see fit". As it
> stands I've been told by various people that they have no interest in
> ensuring that their commits are UTF-8 safe (even if there's an
> automated check that warns them when they're about to break something),
> and I don't consider it fair to force lots of repoman warnings upon
> other developers who *do* care about that kind of thing who just happen
> to be the next person to touch a package that got broken.

Repoman could check the commit message for being valid UTF-8 and simply not 
allow the commit if it isn't. :)

-- 
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:46:23 +0900 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Wednesday 17 August 2005 08:38, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > GLEP 31 is withdrawn until Gentoo gets some means of removing commit
| > access from people who say "nyah nyah I don't feel like following
| > the rules and so I'll just carry on breaking stuff as I see fit".
| > As it stands I've been told by various people that they have no
| > interest in ensuring that their commits are UTF-8 safe (even if
| > there's an automated check that warns them when they're about to
| > break something), and I don't consider it fair to force lots of
| > repoman warnings upon other developers who *do* care about that
| > kind of thing who just happen to be the next person to touch a
| > package that got broken.
| 
| Repoman could check the commit message for being valid UTF-8 and
| simply not allow the commit if it isn't. :)

Well, I have a tool already that checks that. But it doesn't help when
we have developers who don't use repoman, who forcibly override repoman
fatal errors and who just randomly remove anything they think is
causing errors...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Mike Frysinger]

On Tuesday 16 August 2005 09:52 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:46:23 +0900 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
>
> wrote:
> | On Wednesday 17 August 2005 08:38, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> | > GLEP 31 is withdrawn until Gentoo gets some means of removing commit
> | > access from people who say "nyah nyah I don't feel like following
> | > the rules and so I'll just carry on breaking stuff as I see fit".
> | > As it stands I've been told by various people that they have no
> | > interest in ensuring that their commits are UTF-8 safe (even if
> | > there's an automated check that warns them when they're about to
> | > break something), and I don't consider it fair to force lots of
> | > repoman warnings upon other developers who *do* care about that
> | > kind of thing who just happen to be the next person to touch a
> | > package that got broken.
> |
> | Repoman could check the commit message for being valid UTF-8 and
> | simply not allow the commit if it isn't. :)
>
> Well, I have a tool already that checks that. But it doesn't help when
> we have developers who don't use repoman, who forcibly override repoman
> fatal errors and who just randomly remove anything they think is
> causing errors...

yes, but lets work with what we have ... besides, it'll be easy to pick out 
who used repoman and who didnt by checking who has broken UTF8 commit 
messages ;)
-mike
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Aron Griffis]

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Jason Stubbs wrote:	[Tue Aug 16 2005, 09:46:23PM EDT]
> Repoman could check the commit message for being valid UTF-8 and
> simply not allow the commit if it isn't. :)

Be careful, this steps over the line of creating policy by way of
tools.  This is similar to when I changed ekeyword to sort KEYWORDS.
IMHO the best thing is to re-investigate GLEP 31 when the council is
formed.  (At least I am under the impression that the council will
have the authority to make decisions like this, after appropriate
discussion and objections are heard)

Regards,
Aron

--
Aron Griffis
Gentoo Linux Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Jason Stubbs]

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On Thursday 18 August 2005 08:39, Aron Griffis wrote:
> Jason Stubbs wrote:	[Tue Aug 16 2005, 09:46:23PM EDT]
>
> > Repoman could check the commit message for being valid UTF-8 and
> > simply not allow the commit if it isn't. :)
>
> Be careful, this steps over the line of creating policy by way of
> tools.  This is similar to when I changed ekeyword to sort KEYWORDS.

I don't quite get you here. GLEP 31 has been approved, no? That would make 
it seem to me that the above suggestion is just making the QA tool help 
enforce existing policy. If there's a flaw in that line of thinking, please 
point it out in case I fall into the same trap in some other instance.

-- 
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Jason Stubbs wrote:
| I don't quite get you here. GLEP 31 has been approved, no? That would
make
| it seem to me that the above suggestion is just making the QA tool help
| enforce existing policy. If there's a flaw in that line of thinking,
please
| point it out in case I fall into the same trap in some other instance.

OK, here's your flaw. glep.gentoo.org says it's withdrawn.
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-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Mike Frysinger]

On Wednesday 17 August 2005 08:13 pm, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Jason Stubbs wrote:
> | I don't quite get you here. GLEP 31 has been approved, no? That would
> make
> | it seem to me that the above suggestion is just making the QA tool help
> | enforce existing policy. If there's a flaw in that line of thinking,
> please
> | point it out in case I fall into the same trap in some other instance.
>
> OK, here's your flaw. glep.gentoo.org says it's withdrawn.

it was withdrawn for the time being because it was felt that there isnt any 
real way to enforce it atm
-mike
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Jason Stubbs]

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On Thursday 18 August 2005 09:13, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Jason Stubbs wrote:
> | I don't quite get you here. GLEP 31 has been approved, no? That would
>
> make
>
> | it seem to me that the above suggestion is just making the QA tool help
> | enforce existing policy. If there's a flaw in that line of thinking,
> | please point it out in case I fall into the same trap in some other 
> | instance. 
>
> OK, here's your flaw. glep.gentoo.org says it's withdrawn.

Actually, it says "SW". Instead of searching up what SW meant, I decided to 
look at the GLEP itself where I figured the status would be written in 
English. It does have a status listed but apparently it is incorrect.

-- 
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Aron Griffis]

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Jason Stubbs wrote:	[Wed Aug 17 2005, 08:09:39PM EDT]
> I don't quite get you here. GLEP 31 has been approved, no? That
> would make it seem to me that the above suggestion is just making
> the QA tool help enforce existing policy. If there's a flaw in that
> line of thinking, please point it out in case I fall into the same
> trap in some other instance.

You might be right.  I wasn't aware that GLEP 31 was approved before
it was withdrawn.

Regards,
Aron

--
Aron Griffis
Gentoo Linux Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Dice R. Random]

On 8/16/05, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> GLEP 31 is withdrawn until Gentoo gets some means of removing commit
> access from people who say "nyah nyah I don't feel like following the
> rules and so I'll just carry on breaking stuff as I see fit". As it
> stands I've been told by various people that they have no interest in
> ensuring that their commits are UTF-8 safe (even if there's an
> automated check that warns them when they're about to break something),
> and I don't consider it fair to force lots of repoman warnings upon
> other developers who *do* care about that kind of thing who just happen
> to be the next person to touch a package that got broken.

Seems to me that such people should have their developer status revoked.

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Michael Kohl]

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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> suggestion:
> stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
> automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
> messages.  

As I already use a bash function called ecommit which writes a ChangeLog
 entry before it runs repoman and finally commits with the same message,
I'm obviously all for this.

-- 
web@citizen428.net                                 citizen428@gentoo.org
http://citizen428.net/                http://dev.gentoo.org/~citizen428/
GnuPG key: 0x90CA09E3/4D21 916E DBCE 72B8 CDC5  BD87 DE2D 91A2 90CA 09E3

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Jeremy Huddleston]

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On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 18:18 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> suggestion:
> stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
> automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
> messages.  if you really want to keep a commit message out of the changelog, 
> then we come up with a simple policy of prefixing the message with a period 
> (to keep it hidden :P).

I like the idea.  This should force people to actually make their cvs
commit statements worth something.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Alec Warner]

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Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 18:18 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> 
>>suggestion:
>>stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
>>automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
>>messages.  if you really want to keep a commit message out of the changelog, 
>>then we come up with a simple policy of prefixing the message with a period 
>>(to keep it hidden :P).
> 
> 
> I like the idea.  This should force people to actually make their cvs
> commit statements worth something.

Also forcing a Changelog syntax makes portage's -l feature useful, since
 it attempts to parse the Changelog to provide sane entries...but some
Changelogs don't seem to be in the correct syntax that the -l
functionality requires.  With a changelog standard this tool will be
much more useful.

- -Alec Warner (antarus)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:03:21 -0400 Alec Warner <warnera6@egr.msu.edu>
wrote:
| Also forcing a Changelog syntax makes portage's -l feature useful,
| since it attempts to parse the Changelog to provide sane
| entries...but some Changelogs don't seem to be in the correct syntax
| that the -l functionality requires.  With a changelog standard this
| tool will be much more useful.

There is a standard. It's called "whatever echangelog generates". If
everyone used echangelog, nearly all of Mike's original points would be
invalid.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Jason Stubbs]

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On Wednesday 17 August 2005 07:18, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> suggestion:
> stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated
> automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of
> commit messages.

You stole my idea! I guess I better ack it then. ;)

-- 
Jason Stubbs

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Henrik Brix Andersen]

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On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 18:18 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> suggestion:
> stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
> automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
> messages.  if you really want to keep a commit message out of the changelog, 
> then we come up with a simple policy of prefixing the message with a period 
> (to keep it hidden :P).

This would remove the possibility of correcting an entry in the
ChangeLog in case of a typo or wrong assumption etc.

> logic:
>  - i'm lazy

That's not a valid argument - you can use a bash function for calling
echangelog and repoman as shown numerous times on this list.

>  - i hate typing the samething twice (yes, bash scripting with echangelog can 
> kind of take care of this) ... it doesnt handle if you want to use different 
> commit messages for different files

Can you give an example of why you would want to use different commit
messages in a single commit?

>  - shrinks ChangeLog size for packages which have been around a very long time

This is the only real advantage I see from the above proposal - but I
don't think that warrants the change. I doubt the saved space would be
that significant.

>  - forces cvs log messages to actually be worthwhile to read and makes 
> browsing cvs history much nicer (it's very easy to look at the differences 
> between two files and match up a good commit message rather than trying to 
> figure out what message in the ChangeLog goes with it, assuming there is one)

See my first answer (bash function).

>  - easily standardize ChangeLog format wrt to header, copyrights, licensing, 
> message formatting, name/date format

Already done by echangelog.

>  - generate dates in UTC down to the second rather than having devs hand type 
> them in their local timezone for just the current day

I thought echangelog already did this based on TZ?

>  - maybe some other things i havent thought of
>  - i'm lazy

See my first answer (bash function).

Sincerely,
Brix
-- 
Henrik Brix Andersen <brix@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Metadistribution | Mobile computing herd

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Wednesday 17 August 2005 14:16, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> Can you give an example of why you would want to use different commit
> messages in a single commit?
By the way, repoman commit doesn't allow you to do so: as it commits "in 
block" and you must call it also to change a single file in $FILESDIR (else 
you break the manifest), it makes more sense to do different commits.
In this case it makes more sense to change the changelog just at the end with 
a summary of the changes, instead of polluting the changelog with "Fix for 
this file" ... "fix for that file" ... "last fix for that file" ...

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
Gentoo Developer - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
(Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Gentoo/AMD64, Sound, PAM)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Grobian]

Extracted from what Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> That's not a valid argument - you can use a bash function for calling
> echangelog and repoman as shown numerous times on this list.


> See my first answer (bash function).


> See my first answer (bash function).


 From a database point of view, it is evil to duplicate values in an 
automated manner, just use a foreign key for such purposes.  In other 
words, avoid duplication.  If such bash function is a common tool then 
-- apart from wondering why it isn't part of the default suite -- this 
anti-duplication constraint is being broken massively.  I like Mike's 
idea, because it deals with data redundancy and basically uses this 
'foreign key' for the changelog.

In other words: centralise the administration, don't make yourself 
having to keep multiple copies up-to-date, you're doomed to make errors 
with that.

Just my two cents.


-- 
Fabian Groffen
eBuild && Porting
Gentoo for Mac OS X
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Henrik Brix Andersen]

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On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 14:36 +0200, Grobian wrote:
>  From a database point of view, it is evil to duplicate values in an 
> automated manner, just use a foreign key for such purposes.  In other 
> words, avoid duplication.  If such bash function is a common tool then 
> -- apart from wondering why it isn't part of the default suite -- this 
> anti-duplication constraint is being broken massively.  I like Mike's 
> idea, because it deals with data redundancy and basically uses this 
> 'foreign key' for the changelog.

A ChangeLog is not a database - nor is a CVS commit log.

> In other words: centralise the administration, don't make yourself 
> having to keep multiple copies up-to-date, you're doomed to make errors 
> with that.

You can not keep CVS commit logs up-to-date, since you can not change a
given entry.

./Brix
-- 
Henrik Brix Andersen <brix@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Metadistribution | Mobile computing herd

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Wednesday 17 August 2005 14:36, Grobian wrote:
>  From a database point of view, it is evil to duplicate values in an
> automated manner, just use a foreign key for such purposes.  In other
> words, avoid duplication.  If such bash function is a common tool then
> -- apart from wondering why it isn't part of the default suite -- this
> anti-duplication constraint is being broken massively.  I like Mike's
> idea, because it deals with data redundancy and basically uses this
> 'foreign key' for the changelog.
There's a big difference: a database is intended to be used by apps, 
changelogs and commit logs are intended to be used by humans.

Example? When you go in a forum you don't see the foreign key referring to 
users, to forums, to replies ... you see the actual data.
Same for webpages.

I still find a natural ChangeLog simpler to look at instead of using cvs log.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
Gentoo Developer - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
(Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Gentoo/AMD64, Sound, PAM)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Grobian]

Ok.  I'll elaborate some.  I was not planning to do so, but it appears 
there is some misinterpretation here.  It was not my intention to let 
you all know that I think cvs and Changelogs are databases.  They most 
certainly are, but that is not the point here, and may be saved for 
another discussion.

The whole point was that I like avoiding storing data double 
(redundant), if that can be done easily.  As from Mike's initial post I 
had the impression this is "easy" to do.  It appears people don't have 
much different to tell in the cvs commit logs, or even neglect to type 
them at all, so it looked as not a that strange thing to take away the 
ability to be creative with the two different places you are able to 
type into.

As for the forum example: it wouldn't be a foreign key if there wasn't a 
left outer join to look up the respective value for the column.  And so 
that left outer join is here to generate the Changelog to be "backwards 
compatible"



Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 August 2005 14:36, Grobian wrote:
>>  From a database point of view, it is evil to duplicate values in an
>> automated manner, just use a foreign key for such purposes.  In other
>> words, avoid duplication.  If such bash function is a common tool then
>> -- apart from wondering why it isn't part of the default suite -- this
>> anti-duplication constraint is being broken massively.  I like Mike's
>> idea, because it deals with data redundancy and basically uses this
>> 'foreign key' for the changelog.
> There's a big difference: a database is intended to be used by apps, 
> changelogs and commit logs are intended to be used by humans.
> 
> Example? When you go in a forum you don't see the foreign key referring to 
> users, to forums, to replies ... you see the actual data.
> Same for webpages.
> 
> I still find a natural ChangeLog simpler to look at instead of using cvs log.
> 

-- 
Fabian Groffen

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Wednesday 17 August 2005 15:14, Grobian wrote:
> The whole point was that I like avoiding storing data double
> (redundant), if that can be done easily.
It has its own pro and cons as quite everything. You can avoid storing data 
double but makes more difficult to access it by the priority end users (devs; 
while users use changelogs, too, devs are the ones who really need to access 
them).

> As for the forum example: it wouldn't be a foreign key if there wasn't a
> left outer join to look up the respective value for the column.  And so
> that left outer join is here to generate the Changelog to be "backwards
> compatible"
The problem is where this is going to be generated. If this is going to be 
generated in the staging box before going in rsync, every dev that doesn't 
use rsync should use cvs log command to get the data, and this is quite 
unpractical (and requires bandwidth and adds load to the cvs server).

So we should balance redundancy and load... I still think that a little 
redundancy of the changelogs saves us from having to add load to the staging 
or cvs box...

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
Gentoo Developer - http://dev.gentoo.org/~flameeyes/
(Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Gentoo/AMD64, Sound, PAM)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Mike Frysinger]

On Wednesday 17 August 2005 08:16 am, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-08-16 at 18:18 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > logic:
> >  - i'm lazy
>
> That's not a valid argument - you can use a bash function for calling
> echangelog and repoman as shown numerous times on this list.

it was part joke and part seriousness ... i already have my commits scripted 
with echangelog/repoman, but that isnt the point

> >  - i hate typing the samething twice (yes, bash scripting with echangelog
> > can kind of take care of this) ... it doesnt handle if you want to use
> > different commit messages for different files
>
> Can you give an example of why you would want to use different commit
> messages in a single commit?

i delete one version for being old, stabilize another ebuild, and add yet 
another ebuild as a rev bump

> >  - forces cvs log messages to actually be worthwhile to read and makes
> > browsing cvs history much nicer (it's very easy to look at the
> > differences between two files and match up a good commit message rather
> > than trying to figure out what message in the ChangeLog goes with it,
> > assuming there is one)
>
> See my first answer (bash function).

which does not matter if  you commit individual files firest with different 
messages before running your bash funcs

it also pollutes the cvs log history for files ... if i make different fixes 
to different files but only commit with one message, you easily get a lot of 
noise

> >  - easily standardize ChangeLog format wrt to header, copyrights,
> > licensing, message formatting, name/date format
>
> Already done by echangelog.

not everyone uses echangelog

> >  - generate dates in UTC down to the second rather than having devs hand
> > type them in their local timezone for just the current day
>
> I thought echangelog already did this based on TZ?

it does, but not everyone uses echangelog

> >  - maybe some other things i havent thought of
> >  - i'm lazy
>
> See my first answer (bash function).

heaven forbid you get a joke and laugh once in a while
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Henrik Brix Andersen]

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On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 09:04 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> it was part joke and part seriousness ... i already have my commits scripted 
> with echangelog/repoman, but that isnt the point

Ok - a bit hard to tell that you were joking there...

> i delete one version for being old, stabilize another ebuild, and add yet 
> another ebuild as a rev bump

Those are three different things and should be treated as such - also
when committing.

> which does not matter if  you commit individual files firest with different 
> messages before running your bash funcs

Committing files without using repoman?

> it also pollutes the cvs log history for files ... if i make different fixes 
> to different files but only commit with one message, you easily get a lot of 
> noise

Same goes for the ChangeLog: if you do multiple commits with your
proposal, all commits get their own ChangeLog entry.

> not everyone uses echangelog
[snip]
> it does, but not everyone uses echangelog

Why not?

> heaven forbid you get a joke and laugh once in a while

Jokes and sarcasm doesn't work well in e-mails, sorry.

./Brix
-- 
Henrik Brix Andersen <brix@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Metadistribution | Mobile computing herd

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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Jon Portnoy]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 03:45:49PM +0200, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> 
> > not everyone uses echangelog
> [snip]
> > it does, but not everyone uses echangelog
> 
> Why not?
> 

Because I don't want to. :)

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[warnera6]

Jon Portnoy wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 03:45:49PM +0200, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> 
>>>not everyone uses echangelog
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>it does, but not everyone uses echangelog
>>
>>Why not?
>>
> 
> 
> Because I don't want to. :)
> 
<badjoke>You are the weakest link, goodbye!</badjoke>
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Aaron Walker]

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Jon Portnoy wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 03:45:49PM +0200, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> 
>>>not everyone uses echangelog
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>it does, but not everyone uses echangelog
>>
>>Why not?
>>
> 
> 
> Because I don't want to. :)
> 

I have no problem with people not using echangelog as long they write correctly
formatted entries.  It annoys the hell out of me when I come upon someone's
hand-edited ChangeLog entry that lies (a missing '+' is the most common error).

- --
QOTD:
	"You want me to put *holes* in my ears and hang things from them?
	How...  tribal."

Aaron Walker <ka0ttic@gentoo.org>
[ BSD | commonbox | cron | cvs-utils | mips | netmon | shell-tools | vim ]
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Re: [gentoo-dev] generating ChangeLog files automatically from `cvs commit`

[Andreas Vinsander]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> suggestion:
> stop keeping ChangeLog files in CVS and instead, let them be generated 
> automagically by the cvs server using the last <arbitrary number> of commit 
> messages.  if you really want to keep a commit message out of the changelog, 
> then we come up with a simple policy of prefixing the message with a period 
> (to keep it hidden :P).

Just a little question:
Would this work if somebody makes a CVS branch of something and then
merges that branch back into the main trunk. The last commit would be
the commit of the merge which hopefully only have the changes made on
the branch. Thus gives double Changelog entries with the same meaning...
or... no I think I got it... the period thing... to keep the merge
commit hidden... guess I should have kept my mouth shut...

*me goes back into lurk mode*

/Andreas
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