[gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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sys-apps is huge, and that makes it a nuisance to work with. I'd like to
get as much non-core-system stuff out of sys-apps and moved into other
categories if possible.

>From looking at the apps that're there, the following rough categories
sort of maybe stand out a bit:

sys-apps:     keep this around, but for core stuff only
sys-misc:     sys-utils? sys-tools? non-core tools that're still systemy
sys-process:  process and cron utilities
sys-power:    power management related apps
sys-cpu:      cpu management related apps
sys-storage:  or move stuff to sys-fs?
sys-network:  or move stuff to net-*?
sys-hardware: other hardware related apps (maybe splittable further?)
sys-bsd:      see note below

I made a really rough list of possible members, which is here:

http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm/tmp/sys-apps.txt

It's not a very good list, and the categories proposed aren't very good
either, but it's a rough starting point. Feedback strongly encouraged,
since the current list isn't anywhere near implementation-level sanity.

Regarding sys-bsd... When the *bsd folks get their thing working, we're
going to end up with a fair number of bsdish things in the tree. Since
sys-apps is too frickin' huge, would sys-bsd make sense?

This email brought to you by the campaign for splitting up base-system
into a number of smaller saner parts.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Henrik Brix Andersen]

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Moin,

On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 19:00 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> sys-apps is huge, and that makes it a nuisance to work with. I'd like to
> get as much non-core-system stuff out of sys-apps and moved into other
> categories if possible.

Hear hear!

> sys-network:  or move stuff to net-*?

I think it would make more sense to move those to net-*.

> sys-hardware: other hardware related apps (maybe splittable further?)

sys-hardware seems ok to me.

> http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm/tmp/sys-apps.txt

Apart from the above notes I think it looks sane.

Sincerely,
Brix
-- 
Henrik Brix Andersen <brix@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 19:00 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> sys-storage:  or move stuff to sys-fs?

If we go how sys-fs looks now, mdadm should go to sys-fs as well, as
raidtools, lvm, evms, etc are there already.

Also, some things are a bit vague, like hdparm might rather go to
sys-hardware.

A thought might be to move all these (except hdparm, etc), as well as
sys-fs to sys-storage rather.  If we really go by sys-fs means to me at
least, it probably should only be the fsck's, and devfs/udev that stay
there if any.

> sys-network:  or move stuff to net-*?

You might consider them more critical to get the system up, so more
system related?

> sys-hardware: other hardware related apps (maybe splittable further?)

I at least cannot think of 2/4 more meaningful categories for these, as
they are fairly diverse.

> Regarding sys-bsd... When the *bsd folks get their thing working, we're
> going to end up with a fair number of bsdish things in the tree. Since
> sys-apps is too frickin' huge, would sys-bsd make sense?
> 

Like spb said - you cannot really group them, as what each contain is
very diverse, so I think it should be fine.


-- 
Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Mike Frysinger]

On Wednesday 23 February 2005 02:23 pm, Martin Schlemmer wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 19:00 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > sys-storage:  or move stuff to sys-fs?
>
> If we go how sys-fs looks now, mdadm should go to sys-fs as well, as
> raidtools, lvm, evms, etc are there already.

i like having sys-fs / sys-hardware ... having sys-storage just kind of blurs 
the lines ...

> > sys-network:  or move stuff to net-*?
>
> You might consider them more critical to get the system up, so more
> system related?

nah, most of those packages arent even on a typical machine unless the user 
emerges em :) ... i'd vote for disseminating them into other sys- or net- 
categories

netboot-base should go along side baselayout since they serve [pretty much] 
the same function
-mike
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Olivier Crête]

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On Wed, 2005-23-02 at 19:00 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> sys-power:    power management related apps
> sys-cpu:      cpu management related apps

Would it make sense to regroup those into sys-power since the CPU stuff
are only there to save power anyway? and they are both small categories
anyway

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
x86 Security Liaison

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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[tchiwam]

Martin Schlemmer wrote:

>On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 19:00 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>
>  
>
>>sys-storage:  or move stuff to sys-fs?
>>    
>>
>
>If we go how sys-fs looks now, mdadm should go to sys-fs as well, as
>raidtools, lvm, evms, etc are there already.
>
>  
>
But these are not really file systems per say, I would say more
sys-block or sys-rbm (random block management) or sys-blockdev ...

>Also, some things are a bit vague, like hdparm might rather go to
>sys-hardware.
>  
>
sys-block

>A thought might be to move all these (except hdparm, etc), as well as
>sys-fs to sys-storage rather.  If we really go by sys-fs means to me at
>least, it probably should only be the fsck's, and devfs/udev that stay
>there if any.
>  
>

devfs/udev are in fact pseudofs ... so they could be splitted in the 
future if ever needed...

Phil
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Jim Northrup]

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does stage[123] [in|ex]clusion play a role in the "sys-" decision making? 

if the portage tree grew nodal depth of namespace rather than just the 
breadth, gentoo could be a leaner meaner vestige of its former nimble 
self by having domains of visibility and overlays of decreasing 
stability for which the sync bandwidth is committed. 

presently regardless of keywords,all clients see all packages.  if you 
don't like it, you have to run your own infrastructure.

The fringe packages will always be under-maintained but a travelling 
salesman algorithm for migrating packages on portage mirror resources 
would certainly garner a glut of proposals.

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n:Northrup;James
email;internet:glamdring-inc@comcast.net
tel;home:510 725 4587
tel;cell:408 896 6239
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version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 12:31:17AM +0200, tchiwam wrote:
> 
> devfs/udev are in fact pseudofs ... so they could be splitted in the 
> future if ever needed...

udev isn't a fs at all.  It just manages /dev.  The same way touch and
rm manages a filesytem :)

greg k-h
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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Mike Frysinger]

On Wednesday 23 February 2005 05:51 pm, Jim Northrup wrote:
> does stage[123] [in|ex]clusion play a role in the "sys-" decision making?

no
-mike
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:00:35 +0000 Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm/tmp/sys-apps.txt

I updated the list based upon the suggestions in this thread. It's still
not ready for actual implementation, but getting there slowly...

Any reason we don't have a metadata.xml file with a <longdescription> in
each category btw?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 20:23 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> Any reason we don't have a metadata.xml file with a <longdescription> in
> each category btw?
> 

Yes, you have not volunteered before now =)


Thanks,

-- 
Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 08:23:07PM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:00:35 +0000 Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> | http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm/tmp/sys-apps.txt

More suggestions.

These interact with hardware
clrngd -> sys-hardware (it's related to rng-tools)
coldplug -> sys-hardware (related to hotplug)

All of the following are usable as text editors.
less -> app-editors (I consider it a read-only editor)
ed -> app-editors (You can use it on a serial terminal nicely)
sed -> app-editors

These all deal with file-system data in specific ways.
acl -> sys-fs (filesystem ACLs)
attr -> sys-fs (filesystem extended attributes)
dmapi -> sys-fs (XFS specific stuff)
dnotify -> sys-fs (detect changes in filesystem, maybe sys-misc)

All of these handle processes.
runit -> sys-process
minit -> sys-process
daemontools* -> sys-process 
supervise-scripts -> sys-process
(maybe sysvinit too)

linux32 -> app-emulation (or maybe sys-devel with mips32/sparc32)
cracklib-words -> app-dicts (this is where all other wordlists are)

The following are not core packages.
gcloop -> sys-block (loops mounted as block devices)
subterfugue -> dev-util (strace is there)
tcng -> net-misc (it's an extension of iproute2)
ucspi-* -> net-misc (network interaction)
showconsole -> app-admin (with the rest of the syslog stuff)
tic98 -> media-gfx (it compresses images, similar to pngcrush)
biosdisk -> sys-hardware (similar to memtest86)
tmpreaper -> sys-misc
dchroot -> sys-misc 

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
E-Mail     : robbat2@orbis-terrarum.net
Home Page  : http://www.orbis-terrarum.net/?l=people.robbat2
ICQ#       : 30269588 or 41961639
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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Olivier Crête]

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On Mon, 2005-28-02 at 17:21 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> linux32 -> app-emulation (or maybe sys-devel with mips32/sparc32)

Its not emulation... just tells the OS to advertise itself as i686
instead of x86_64. and its not specifically a dev tool

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
x86 Security Liaison

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[gentoo-dev] x86 vs amd64 :: ppc vs ppc64 (was sys-apps is too big)

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 28 February 2005 08:34 pm, Olivier Crête wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-28-02 at 17:21 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> > linux32 -> app-emulation (or maybe sys-devel with mips32/sparc32)
>
> Its not emulation... just tells the OS to advertise itself as i686
> instead of x86_64. and its not specifically a dev tool

anyone know why ppc64 doesnt do the samething ?  if you run a 32bit userspace 
system with 64bit kernel, uname advertizes 'powerpc64' instead of 
'powerpc' ...
-mike

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] x86 vs amd64 :: ppc vs ppc64 (was sys-apps is too big)

[Stephen P. Becker]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Monday 28 February 2005 08:34 pm, Olivier Crête wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 2005-28-02 at 17:21 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>linux32 -> app-emulation (or maybe sys-devel with mips32/sparc32)
>>
>>Its not emulation... just tells the OS to advertise itself as i686
>>instead of x86_64. and its not specifically a dev tool
> 
> 
> anyone know why ppc64 doesnt do the samething ?  if you run a 32bit userspace 
> system with 64bit kernel, uname advertizes 'powerpc64' instead of 
> 'powerpc' ...
> -mike
> 

Well with FEATURES="autoconfig", no arches should really need this 
anymore I would think.  <arch>32 was mostly used just to trick the 
configure script into using something it knows.

Steve

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Re: [gentoo-dev] x86 vs amd64 :: ppc vs ppc64 (was sys-apps is too big)

[Mike Frysinger]

On Monday 28 February 2005 08:49 pm, Stephen P. Becker wrote:
> Well with FEATURES="autoconfig", no arches should really need this
> anymore I would think.  <arch>32 was mostly used just to trick the
> configure script into using something it knows.

yes, but autoconfig only covers autotooled based packages, and there are a few 
[significant] packages which call uname ...

i'm thinking of openssl atm really ... i wonder much trouble it would be to 
gut their config script with autotool's config.{sub,guess} ?
-mike
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:21:51 -0800 "Robin H. Johnson"
<robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
| More suggestions.

Looks good, thanks.

| All of the following are usable as text editors.
| less -> app-editors (I consider it a read-only editor)
| ed -> app-editors (You can use it on a serial terminal nicely)
| sed -> app-editors

I'm strongly inclined to disagree on these three. Mmmmaybe ed. sed's
definitely a sys-app.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 08:20 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:21:51 -0800 "Robin H. Johnson"
> <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | More suggestions.
> 
> Looks good, thanks.
> 
> | All of the following are usable as text editors.
> | less -> app-editors (I consider it a read-only editor)
> | ed -> app-editors (You can use it on a serial terminal nicely)
> | sed -> app-editors
> 
> I'm strongly inclined to disagree on these three. Mmmmaybe ed. sed's
> definitely a sys-app.
> 

And if we stick less/more in app-editors, its once again a blur, just in
a different place.


-- 
Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Stuart Longland]

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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:21:51 -0800 "Robin H. Johnson"
> <robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | More suggestions.
>
> Looks good, thanks.
>
> | All of the following are usable as text editors.
> | less -> app-editors (I consider it a read-only editor)
> | ed -> app-editors (You can use it on a serial terminal nicely)
> | sed -> app-editors
>
> I'm strongly inclined to disagree on these three. Mmmmaybe ed. sed's
> definitely a sys-app.

Well... technically it is an editor... the name comes from Stream EDitor
-- and it does indeed do exactly that -- you pass some text into stdin,
give it some rules... and edited text comes out stdout.

So on that basis, I'd definately consider it an editor -- albeit a not
so user friendly one.

less though, is more in a grey area.  Technically it's a pager/file
viewer, and should be put together with more, gless, and other similar
apps.  Perhaps a new category, app-viewers, could be made for this
purpose -- applications that allow viewing of various file types.

That's my AU$0.022 (GST Inclusive) worth :-)
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Stuart Longland -oOo- http://stuartl.longlandclan.hopto.org |
| Atomic Linux Project     -oOo-    http://atomicl.berlios.de |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
| I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on a tape somewhere |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Aaron Walker]

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Robin H. Johnson wrote:

> The following are not core packages.
> gcloop -> sys-block (loops mounted as block devices)
> subterfugue -> dev-util (strace is there)
> tcng -> net-misc (it's an extension of iproute2)
> ucspi-* -> net-misc (network interaction)
> showconsole -> app-admin (with the rest of the syslog stuff)
> tic98 -> media-gfx (it compresses images, similar to pngcrush)
> biosdisk -> sys-hardware (similar to memtest86)
> tmpreaper -> sys-misc
> dchroot -> sys-misc 
> 

IMO tmpreaper should go in app-admin along side tmpwatch.

- --
I brought my BOWLING BALL -- and some DRUGS!!

Aaron Walker <ka0ttic@gentoo.org>
[ BSD | cron | forensics | shell-tools | commonbox | netmon | vim | web-apps ]
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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Georgi Georgiev]

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maillog: 01/03/2005-20:40:01(+1000): Stuart Longland types
> less though, is more in a grey area.  Technically it's a pager/file
> viewer, and should be put together with more, gless, and other similar
> apps.  Perhaps a new category, app-viewers, could be made for this
> purpose -- applications that allow viewing of various file types.

Are you also willing to suggest that qiv, gqview, etc. should also go in
app-viewers? Just curious what exactly app-viewers will be intended for.

-- 
/    Georgi Georgiev   /  "I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't       /
\     chutz@gg3.net    \  want to be there when it happens." --        \
/   +81(90)6266-1163   /  Woody Allen                                  /

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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Stuart Longland]

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Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> maillog: 01/03/2005-20:40:01(+1000): Stuart Longland types
>
>>less though, is more in a grey area.  Technically it's a pager/file
>>viewer, and should be put together with more, gless, and other similar
>>apps.  Perhaps a new category, app-viewers, could be made for this
>>purpose -- applications that allow viewing of various file types.
>
>
> Are you also willing to suggest that qiv, gqview, etc. should also go in
> app-viewers? Just curious what exactly app-viewers will be intended for.
>

That may be an option.  It was just a suggestion, that if it moved at
all, it should be bundled with other viewers.  So yes, one could
consider gqview, xview, Kuickshow and other such apps, as "viewers".

Mind you... reshuffling all this for the sake of one package may be
going overboard -- just a little. :-)
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Stuart Longland -oOo- http://stuartl.longlandclan.hopto.org |
| Atomic Linux Project     -oOo-    http://atomicl.berlios.de |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
| I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on a tape somewhere |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

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[gentoo-dev] Re: sys-apps is too big

[Thomas Kirchner]

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* On Mar  1 20:40, Stuart Longland (gentoo-dev@gentoo.org) wrote:
> Well... technically it is an editor... the name comes from Stream EDitor
> -- and it does indeed do exactly that -- you pass some text into stdin,
> give it some rules... and edited text comes out stdout.

Heathens.  "Ed is the standard text editor."

That said, when was the last time anyone used ed (on purpose) to edit
files?  Definitely belongs in sys-apps or somewhere else imo, with sed.

Tom

p.s. http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: sys-apps is too big

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 09:08:41AM -0500, Thomas Kirchner wrote:
> * On Mar  1 20:40, Stuart Longland (gentoo-dev@gentoo.org) wrote:
> > Well... technically it is an editor... the name comes from Stream EDitor
> > -- and it does indeed do exactly that -- you pass some text into stdin,
> > give it some rules... and edited text comes out stdout.
> Heathens.  "Ed is the standard text editor."
> 
> That said, when was the last time anyone used ed (on purpose) to edit
> files?  Definitely belongs in sys-apps or somewhere else imo, with sed.
I proposed moving it to app-editors as I do use it manually to edit
files. It's very nice when you have a strange terminal (SSH over
wireless from my Handspring Visor is the current main location, simply
because the environment has NO control keys of any sort, no Escape, no
Ctrl, no Alt, no Meta...).

It wouldn't surprise me if it's a popular editor for braille terminals
either.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
E-Mail     : robbat2@orbis-terrarum.net
Home Page  : http://www.orbis-terrarum.net/?l=people.robbat2
ICQ#       : 30269588 or 41961639
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: sys-apps is too big

[Thomas Kirchner]

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* On Mar  1  6:37, Robin H. Johnson (gentoo-dev@gentoo.org) wrote:
> I proposed moving it to app-editors as I do use it manually to edit
> files. It's very nice when you have a strange terminal (SSH over
> wireless from my Handspring Visor is the current main location, simply
> because the environment has NO control keys of any sort, no Escape, no
> Ctrl, no Alt, no Meta...).
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if it's a popular editor for braille terminals
> either.

Good points, that I of course forgot, though it still seems that in a vast
majority of cases, ed wouldn't be labelled as an editor in the same way as
vim or emacs.  I've seen people create videos/animations that play in vim,
but I wouldn't try to put it in media-video.  :)
Tom

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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 20:40:01 +1000 Stuart Longland
<stuartl@longlandclan.hopto.org> wrote:
| Well... technically it is an editor... the name comes from Stream
| EDitor -- and it does indeed do exactly that -- you pass some text
| into stdin, give it some rules... and edited text comes out stdout.

So? Both are primarily used as core system utilities, not as editors, so
they stay in sys-apps.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:23:07 +0000 Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:00:35 +0000 Ciaran McCreesh
| <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
| | http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm/tmp/sys-apps.txt
| 
| I updated the list based upon the suggestions in this thread. It's
| still not ready for actual implementation, but getting there slowly...

...and updated again. It's starting to look vaguely sane IMO, although
sys-hardware is maybe still too big.

Fortunately, most of the implementation can be done incrementally, so I
might start on sys-process later today or tomorrow.

| Any reason we don't have a metadata.xml file with a <longdescription>
| in each category btw?

I'll probably implement this at some point. I've heard three people say
yes, none say no, so scream now if you don't like the idea.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Stuart Longland]

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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 20:40:01 +1000 Stuart Longland
> <stuartl@longlandclan.hopto.org> wrote:
> | Well... technically it is an editor... the name comes from Stream
> | EDitor -- and it does indeed do exactly that -- you pass some text
> | into stdin, give it some rules... and edited text comes out stdout.
>
> So? Both are primarily used as core system utilities, not as editors, so
> they stay in sys-apps.
>

Yes... but in the "core utility role" what does sed and ed do?  Edit
files & streams.  They are scripted editors -- and should be recognised
as such.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Stuart Longland -oOo- http://stuartl.longlandclan.hopto.org |
| Atomic Linux Project     -oOo-    http://atomicl.berlios.de |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
| I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on a tape somewhere |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:21:05 +1000 Stuart Longland
<stuartl@longlandclan.hopto.org> wrote:
| Yes... but in the "core utility role" what does sed and ed do?  Edit
| files & streams.  They are scripted editors -- and should be
| recognised as such.

Actually, ed is used by patch and sed is used to extract patterns from
other commands' output. So, I'd say their primary use is core system
rather than editing. I mean, if you go by what *can* be done, coreutils
would end up in app-editors too.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 11:33:32PM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Actually, ed is used by patch and sed is used to extract patterns from
> other commands' output. 
Ah, I wasn't aware that patch used ed like this. Could somebody please
put an [R]DEPEND on ed in the patch ebuild then?

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
E-Mail     : robbat2@orbis-terrarum.net
Home Page  : http://www.orbis-terrarum.net/?l=people.robbat2
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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Mike Frysinger]

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 06:40 pm, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 11:33:32PM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > Actually, ed is used by patch and sed is used to extract patterns from
> > other commands' output.
>
> Ah, I wasn't aware that patch used ed like this. Could somebody please
> put an [R]DEPEND on ed in the patch ebuild then?

no
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:40:19 -0800 "Robin H. Johnson"
<robbat2@gentoo.org> wrote:
| On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 11:33:32PM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Actually, ed is used by patch and sed is used to extract patterns
| > from other commands' output. 
| Ah, I wasn't aware that patch used ed like this. Could somebody please
| put an [R]DEPEND on ed in the patch ebuild then?

I thought we'd taken that out at some point because no-one had actually
seen an ed-style patch for rather a long time.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sys-apps is too big

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:08:45 +0000 Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| Fortunately, most of the implementation can be done incrementally, so
| I might start on sys-process later today or tomorrow.

Most of sys-process is done. Wasn't as smooth as I expected, thanks to
epkgmove being full of bugs, but I got there... Eventually... Please let
me know if you find any broken deps / manifests / profiles stuff.

Thanks to infra for temporarily stopping cvs->rsync when epkgmove fell
over in the middle of one particularly crucial app...

Uhm, I think I'm gonna leave the rest for a few days for mental health
reasons.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] x86 vs amd64 :: ppc vs ppc64 (was sys-apps is too big)

[Kumba]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> 
> anyone know why ppc64 doesnt do the samething ?  if you run a 32bit userspace 
> system with 64bit kernel, uname advertizes 'powerpc64' instead of 
> 'powerpc' ...
> -mike

The only differences between sparc32 and mips32 is a literal `sed -e 
"s/sparc/mips/g"`.  I've often wondered if sparc32, mips32, linux32, and any 
other such tools can't be merged into a single command that names itself 
appropriately depending on the HOST arch it's compiled on (or arch defined by 
a configure --target statement for crossbuilds).

Any coders up to taking a look at this possibility?


--Kumba

-- 
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small 
hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." 
--Elrond
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Re: [gentoo-dev] x86 vs amd64 :: ppc vs ppc64 (was sys-apps is too big)

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 03 March 2005 09:32 pm, Kumba wrote:
> The only differences between sparc32 and mips32 is a literal `sed -e
> "s/sparc/mips/g"`.  I've often wondered if sparc32, mips32, linux32, and
> any other such tools can't be merged into a single command that names
> itself appropriately depending on the HOST arch it's compiled on (or arch
> defined by a configure --target statement for crossbuilds).

the x86 one is pretty simple too ... really they all just call the 
personality() syscall and then execvp() the args passed in
-mike
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