[gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

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I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so does
anyone have anything to comment on here?

I know the wording in the GLEP is not very smooth, but I always hated
literature classes.

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0032.html

GLEP: 32
Title: Maildir Location
Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2004/11/03 23:38:05 $
Author:	Georgi Georgiev <chutz@gg3.net>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 03-Nov-2004
Post-History: 03-Nov-2004

Abstract
========

Ebuilds that install mail delivery agents often need to know the default
location of users' mailbox. When the mailbox is of a maildir type, there is no
set standard what the name of the directory should be. The most popular
extensions are "Maildir", ".Maildir" and Gentoo has adopted its own ".maildir"
name.

This GLEP proposes a user-definable maildir location.

Motivation
==========

To provide the means to change the default location of a maildir, that is
currently hardcoded in ebuilds.

The ".maildir" name is not adequate for most situations.

- "Maildir" is the defacto standard name for maildir mailboxes.

- People transferring e-mail configuration from other systems prefer to keep
  the original naming conventions.

- In a virtual hosting environment, having a hidden file in a directory
  dedicated for e-mail delivery is not a plus.

- All postfix and qmail related documentation gives "Maildir" as an example
  name.

Rationale
=========

The following comments were made in a discussion [#bugreport]_ on the Gentoo
bugzilla

- The default location should be specified in ``rc.conf``

- Preventing users from shooting themselves in the foot is not an issue

Implementation
==============

A ``maildir.eclass`` has been submitted to Bug 52076 [#bugreport]_.

Patches that implement features similar to this GLEP have already been
submitted to Bug 52076 [#bugreport]_.

MAILDIR variable
----------------

The default location for maildir delivery is specified by the ``$MAILDIR``
variable. This variable is specified in ``rc.conf``.

maildir.eclass
--------------

This eclass exports a ``$MAILDIR`` variable to the ebuilds that inherit it. If
``$MAILDIR`` has not been specified in ``rc.conf`` the eclass exports
``MAILDIR=.maildir`` for backwards compatibility reasons.

Patching ebuilds
----------------

Since most ebuilds that currently need to know what the maildir delivery
location is already take the default ``.maildir`` location into account when
installing, modifying ebuilds to implement this GLEP is as simple as
inheriting the ``maildir.eclass`` and substituting ``.maildir`` in the ebuild
with the ``$MAILDIR`` variable. Care should be taken, to also modify any
patches or scripts that are used by the ebuild, that already have ``.maildir``
hardcoded (vpopmail, exim).

Backwards Compatibility
=======================

The default location is ".maildir", unless it is overridden. This way, there
would be no backwards compatibility issues.

References
==========

.. [#bugreport] Bug 52076 (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52076)

Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.

-- 
*>   Georgi Georgiev   *> In West Union, Ohio, No married man can go   *>
<*    chutz@gg3.net    <* flying without his spouse along at any       <*
*>  +81(90)6266-1163   *> time, unless he has been married for more    *>
<* ------------------- <* than 12 months.                              <*

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Mike Frysinger]

On Wednesday 03 November 2004 09:05 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so does
> anyone have anything to comment on here?

does this really require a GLEP ?  isnt this something the net-mail herd could 
have decided on themselves ?

seems like a GLEP is over the top ;)
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

maillog: 03/11/2004-21:16:37(-0500): Mike Frysinger types
> On Wednesday 03 November 2004 09:05 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so does
> > anyone have anything to comment on here?
> 
> does this really require a GLEP ?  isnt this something the net-mail herd could 
> have decided on themselves ?
> 
> seems like a GLEP is over the top ;)

You're the first one who thinks that a GLEP is not required.

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52076

-- 
 >   Georgi Georgiev    > There are people so addicted to               >
<     chutz@gg3.net    <  exaggeration that they can't tell the        <
 >  +81(90)6266-1163    > truth without lying. -- Josh Billings         >

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Daniel]

I like it - well thought out and sems to cover everything.

-- 
Daniel Black <dragonheart@gentoo.org>

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[gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Kalin KOZHUHAROV]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 November 2004 09:05 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> 
>>I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so does
>>anyone have anything to comment on here?
> 
> does this really require a GLEP ?  isnt this something the net-mail herd could 
> have decided on themselves ?
Well, you've seen the "Gentoo official motto" thread right?
(In case not: "We'd have an official motto but we're waiting for the GLEP to be approved." )

Joke or not(the motto), here we have the GLEP ready.
 
> seems like a GLEP is over the top ;)
If it is going to change the situation, it is worth it.

Thank you, Georgi, for finding the time to do it (me=lazy/busy).
Once approved, I will stop fixing/masking every other new *mail* ebuild...

Kalin.

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 || ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ||
(  ) http://ThinRope.net/ (  )
 || ______________________ ||


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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Grant Goodyear]

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Vapier wrote: [Wed Nov 03 2004, 08:16:37PM CST]
> does this really require a GLEP ?  isnt this something the net-mail
> herd could 
> have decided on themselves ?

If the net-mail shepherds actually wanted to make this change, then
it's quite true that a GLEP would not be required.  My understanding is
that the current situation is that the net-mail folks aren't opposed in
principle, but they're (we're) worried that the additional flexibility
will lead to a raft of new bug reports.  When I e-mailed the author to
let him know that I had posted his GLEP, I also suggested that he needs
to address where the additional manpower would come from to implement
and maintain it.  As I'm sure you're well aware, the more critical the
herd happens to be (e.g., base-system), the fewer people one can find to
work on it.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

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maillog: 04/11/2004-11:57:13(-0600): Grant Goodyear types
> When I e-mailed the author to let him know that I had posted his GLEP,
> I also suggested that he needs to address where the additional
> manpower would come from to implement and maintain it.

Hm, the comment I actually got was "who's going to make all of the
requisite changes". By changes, I understood "patching ebuilds" and I've
already done that and posted it to Bug #52076. I am pretty sure I
must've overlooked something, but so far as someone has taken the effor
to "fix" a package's ebuild to support ".maildir", it is just as trivial
to use $MAILDIR instead of ".maildir" in the "fix".

As Grant's already mentioned at that bug (Comment #7)

" Since I would expect very few people to ever change the value of this
variable, I'm not so worried about people shooting themselves in the
foot."

so I figured that the "raft of new bugreports" is not a concern.

So far, the list of ebuilds that I patched, includes

mail-client/mutt/mutt-1.5.6-r4.ebuild
mail-client/nail/nail-11.1.ebuild
mail-filter/maildrop/maildrop-1.5.3-r1.ebuild
mail-filter/maildrop/maildrop-1.7.0-r2.ebuild
mail-filter/maildrop/maildrop-1.7.0.20040907.ebuild
mail-filter/procmail/procmail-3.22-r6.ebuild
mail-mta/courier/courier-0.47.ebuild
mail-mta/exim/exim-4.43.ebuild
mail-mta/postfix/postfix-2.1.5-r1.ebuild
mail-mta/qmail/qmail-1.03-r13.ebuild
mail-mta/qmail/qmail-1.03-r15.ebuild
net-mail/bincimap/bincimap-1.2.10.ebuild
net-mail/checkpw/checkpw-1.01.ebuild
net-mail/courier-imap/courier-imap-3.0.7.ebuild
net-mail/courier-imap/courier-imap-3.0.8.ebuild
net-mail/dovecot/dovecot-0.99.11-r1.ebuild
net-mail/mailfront/mailfront-0.88.ebuild
net-mail/popa3d/popa3d-0.6.4.1.ebuild
net-mail/qmailadmin/qmailadmin-1.2.1.ebuild
net-mail/vpopmail/vpopmail-5.4.0.ebuild
net-mail/vpopmail/vpopmail-5.4.6-r1.ebuild

If there is one that also needs to be touched, do add to the list.
I've only done the latest stable and unstable versions of an ebuild that
seemed to require fixing (at least that's what I *intended* to do).

-- 
/    Georgi Georgiev   /  I CANNOT ABSOLVE SINS I CANNOT ABSOLVE       /
\     chutz@gg3.net    \  SINS I CANNOT ABSOLVE SINS I CANNOT          \
/   +81(90)6266-1163   /  ABSOLVE SINS Bart Simpson on chalkboard in   /
\  ------------------- \  episode AABF14                               \

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Thursday 04 November 2004 03:16, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 November 2004 09:05 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so
> > does anyone have anything to comment on here?
>
> does this really require a GLEP ?  isnt this something the net-mail
> herd could have decided on themselves ?

That's partly up to the requestor. In any case I like it.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

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maillog: 04/11/2004-11:05:08(+0900): Georgi Georgiev types
> I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so does
> anyone have anything to comment on here?
> 
> I know the wording in the GLEP is not very smooth, but I always hated
> literature classes.
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0032.html

It's been a week, and there have been no negative responses about this
GLEP. How does a GLEP get approved?

-- 
 >   Georgi Georgiev    >  Fry: Have you ever been in love? Worm        >
<     chutz@gg3.net    <  Mayor: No, I thought I was once, but then    <
 >  +81(90)6266-1163    > I remembered our species reproduces with a    >
<  ------------------- <  cloud of spores.                             <

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 11 November 2004 10:45 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> It's been a week, and there have been no negative responses about this
> GLEP. How does a GLEP get approved?

did you read GLEP #1 ? :p
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

maillog: 11/11/2004-22:52:31(-0500): Mike Frysinger types
> On Thursday 11 November 2004 10:45 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > It's been a week, and there have been no negative responses about this
> > GLEP. How does a GLEP get approved?
> 
> did you read GLEP #1 ? :p

Yes. It mentions a manager, but that part was a little vague.

-- 
|    Georgi Georgiev   |  Your job is being a professor and            |
|     chutz@gg3.net    |  researcher: That's one hell of a good        |
|   +81(90)6266-1163   |  excuse for some of the brain-damages of      |
|  ------------------- |  minix. (Linus Torvalds to Andrew             |
|  ------------------- |  Tanenbaum) x.                                |

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 11 November 2004 11:50 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> Yes. It mentions a manager, but that part was a little vague.

next time they send out request for topics for the next managers meeting, the 
sponsoring dev of the GLEP will submit it to be on the agenda

then, once it's on the agenda, the developer has to give a little intro during 
the meeting and they vote on it

that is the current process
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

maillog: 12/11/2004-00:05:57(-0500): Mike Frysinger types
> On Thursday 11 November 2004 11:50 pm, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > Yes. It mentions a manager, but that part was a little vague.
> 
> next time they send out request for topics for the next managers meeting, the 
> sponsoring dev of the GLEP will submit it to be on the agenda
> 
> then, once it's on the agenda, the developer has to give a little intro during 
> the meeting and they vote on it
> 
> that is the current process

I see. And who would be the sponsoring dev of GLEP 32?

-- 
*>   Georgi Georgiev   *> A good man always knows his limitations. -   *>
<*    chutz@gg3.net    <* - Harry Callahan                             <*
*>  +81(90)6266-1163   *>                                              *>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Mike Frysinger]

On Friday 12 November 2004 12:09 am, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> I see. And who would be the sponsoring dev of GLEP 32?

technically since you're the Author, you are
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

maillog: 12/11/2004-01:01:33(-0500): Mike Frysinger types
> On Friday 12 November 2004 12:09 am, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > I see. And who would be the sponsoring dev of GLEP 32?
> 
> technically since you're the Author, you are

So what is the proper way to proceed? I find a dev to represent my GLEP
on that meeting?

-- 
()   Georgi Georgiev   () Credit ... is the only enduring              ()
()    chutz@gg3.net    () testimonial to man's confidence in man. --   ()
()  +81(90)6266-1163   () James Blish                                  ()

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Georgi Georgiev]

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maillog: 04/11/2004-11:05:08(+0900): Georgi Georgiev types
> I don't know what the proper procedure for accepting a GLEP is, so does
> anyone have anything to comment on here?
> 
> I know the wording in the GLEP is not very smooth, but I always hated
> literature classes.
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0032.html

I have a comment I'd like an opinion on.

In http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52076#c4 Mr.Goodyear says:

  I think this idea is a good one (although I would prefer that the
  default maildir location be specified in rc.conf instead of
  make.conf).

I did not have any reasons to prefer make.conf over rc.conf, so I
submitted a GLEP with /etc/rc.conf as the location. However, the way I
see it, the MAILDIR variable changes the way packages are compiled
and/or installed. I remember I've seen something about the importance of
being able to reinstall a Gentoo system in a consistent manner. What one
needs for this purpose was a copy of:

  - /etc/make.conf
  - /etc/portage
  - /var/lib/portage/world

I don't think that /etc/rc.conf was mentioned in that list, but I am not
sure that there was such a list in the first place. Since there are
tools like webapp-config and kernel-config we're probably way past the
point of taking care of consistency in only a few well defined places.

I'd like to hear the opinion of a developer on these points:

- Is consistency an issue?
- How is it defined (what files do we need to keep, if at all)?
- What I really want to know is "Is there a good reason why the location
  where the MAILDIR variable is defined be rc.conf or make.conf or some
  other place?".

-- 
\    Georgi Georgiev   \  Storms beget storms. Rage begets rage.       \
 /    chutz@gg3.net     / Revenge begets revenge. Wars beget wars. -    /
\   +81(90)6266-1163   \  - Bene Gesserit Conundrum                    \

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 32: Maildir location

[Mike Frysinger]

On Friday 12 November 2004 02:08 am, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> maillog: 12/11/2004-01:01:33(-0500): Mike Frysinger types
>
> > On Friday 12 November 2004 12:09 am, Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > > I see. And who would be the sponsoring dev of GLEP 32?
> >
> > technically since you're the Author, you are
>
> So what is the proper way to proceed? I find a dev to represent my GLEP
> on that meeting?

talk with the net-mail herd to figure out how you guys want to proceed
-mike

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