[gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Carsten Lohrke]

The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with 
--enable-final via the "final" use flag. Additionally I thought about a 
kde-misc category, which would include a bunch of kde related packages, which 
are now mainly placed in app-misc, x11-misc, some in other categories and a 
few are still in bugs.g.o. Any objections?


Carsten

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 705 bytes --]

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:56:56 +0200 Carsten Lohrke <carlo@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with 
| --enable-final via the "final" use flag.

It'd help if you explained what the heck that actually did :)

| Additionally I thought about
| a kde-misc category, which would include a bunch of kde related
| packages, which are now mainly placed in app-misc, x11-misc, some in
| other categories and a few are still in bugs.g.o. Any objections?

mmm, less stuff in x11-misc can only be a good thing.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Carsten Lohrke]

On Thursday 26 August 2004 18:02, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:56:56 +0200 Carsten Lohrke <carlo@gentoo.org>
>
> wrote:
> | The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with
> | --enable-final via the "final" use flag.
>
> It'd help if you explained what the heck that actually did :)

+ compilation speedup, smaller apps
- may break compilation in some cases, ccache useless

for reference:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14003

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Caleb Tennis]

> On Thursday 26 August 2004 18:02, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > It'd help if you explained what the heck that actually did :)

When compiling a subdirectory, it basically lumps all of the headers and 
source into one big file and sends it to the compiler, which can then use all 
sorts of fancy optimizations since all of the compilation units are in that 
one file, vs. multiple files.  It makes compilation a LOT faster and produces 
much more optimized binaries, at the expense of needing much more space for 
temporary files during the compile.  Also, it doesn't always get tested 100% 
before a release, so sometimes an #include is missing which causes the 
compilation to fail.

Caleb

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 26 August 2004 11:56 am, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with
> --enable-final via the "final" use flag

does anything other than KDE use this ?  if not, why is it global ?  just add 
it locally to the KDE ebuilds
-mike

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Markus Nigbur]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 604 bytes --]

On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 17:56, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with 
> --enable-final via the "final" use flag. Additionally I thought about a 
> kde-misc category, which would include a bunch of kde related packages, which 
> are now mainly placed in app-misc, x11-misc, some in other categories and a 
> few are still in bugs.g.o. Any objections?

Uncluttering *-misc is a very good thing and additionally reduces some
work for me. I'm all for it. :)

-- 
 (o_  Markus Nigbur
 //\  Gentoo Linux Developer
[ ]/_ http://www.gentoo.org

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Carsten Lohrke]

On Friday 27 August 2004 15:08, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> does anything other than KDE use this ?  if not, why is it global ?  just
> add it locally to the KDE ebuilds

The flag will be placed in kde.eclass and affects roundabout 600 packages. It 
would be possible to declare it "eclass local", if Portage would provide the 
functionality, but I will not add the same flag description 600 times. 


Carsten

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Mike Frysinger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 365 bytes --]

On Saturday 28 August 2004 06:31 pm, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> The flag will be placed in kde.eclass and affects roundabout 600 packages.
> It would be possible to declare it "eclass local", if Portage would provide
> the functionality, but I will not add the same flag description 600 times.

is it used in 600 different packages or just the ones in kde-base/
-mike

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 838 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Carsten Lohrke]

On Sunday 29 August 2004 19:44, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> is it used in 600 different packages or just the ones in kde-base/

Why should I write 600 packages, if it would be only the latter?!


Carsten

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Mike Frysinger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 533 bytes --]

On Sunday 29 August 2004 02:10 pm, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> On Sunday 29 August 2004 19:44, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > is it used in 600 different packages or just the ones in kde-base/
>
> Why should I write 600 packages, if it would be only the latter?!

uhh, no one said to
# of packages in kde-base: 22
# of packages in portage: ~7700

if your final USE flag is only going to be utilized by packages in kde-base (i 
dont care where you put it), then it should really be a local USE flag, not a 
global USE flag
-mike

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 838 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Spider]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 759 bytes --]

begin  quote
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:56:56 +0200
Carsten Lohrke <carlo@gentoo.org> wrote:

> The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with 
> --enable-final via the "final" use flag. Additionally I thought about
> a  kde-misc category, which would include a bunch of kde related
> packages, which  are now mainly placed in app-misc, x11-misc, some in
> other categories and a  few are still in bugs.g.o.

>  Any objections?
> 

I'd object to the use of the word "final" for this, since its ambigous
and hard to comprehend its meaning.  I'd suggest finding a better word
to describe the flag and its function.


//Spider

-- 
begin  .signature
Tortured users / Laughing in pain
See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information.
end

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

[gentoo-dev] Re: new global use flag and a new category

[Duncan]

Spider posted <20040829214235.5115ef57.spider@gentoo.org>, excerpted
below,  on Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:42:35 +0200:

> begin  quote
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:56:56 +0200
> Carsten Lohrke <carlo@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> The kde herd wants to give everyone the possibility to configure with
>> --enable-final via the "final" use flag. Additionally I thought about a 
>> kde-misc category, which would include a bunch of kde related packages,
>> which  are now mainly placed in app-misc, x11-misc, some in other
>> categories and a  few are still in bugs.g.o.
> 
>>  Any objections?
>> 
>> 
> I'd object to the use of the word "final" for this, since its ambigous and
> hard to comprehend its meaning.  I'd suggest finding a better word to
> describe the flag and its function.

The trouble is that's the upstream choice.  From kdebase 3.3.0's
./configure --help:

 --enable-final  build size optimized apps (experimental [...])
    
Isn't one of the Gentoo policies to let upstream policy guide where
possible in such instances?  Anyone that has worked on KDE sources should
instantly grok what such a use flag is about.  If Gentoo calls it
something else, it will IMO make things /less/ clear.

Well, I guess the /one/ simpler possibility would be to call the flag
"enable-final", instead of simply "final", making it even clearer, but I'd
expect that wouldn't address your concern.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --
Benjamin Franklin



--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Paul de Vrieze]

On Sunday 29 August 2004 20:32, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sunday 29 August 2004 02:10 pm, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> > On Sunday 29 August 2004 19:44, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > > is it used in 600 different packages or just the ones in kde-base/
> >
> > Why should I write 600 packages, if it would be only the latter?!
>
> uhh, no one said to
> # of packages in kde-base: 22
> # of packages in portage: ~7700
>
> if your final USE flag is only going to be utilized by packages in
> kde-base (i dont care where you put it), then it should really be a
> local USE flag, not a global USE flag

The kde configuration system (including the --enable-final) is used in 
many kde applications that are not in kde-base. While --enable-final will 
not work in all of those applications, the amount of applications in 
which it would work is probably substantial. I agree with Carsten on his 
reluctance to add the description for all these packages. It is not the 
work required (scripting makes it doable), but the fact that it does not 
make much sense.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new global use flag and a new category

[Mike Frysinger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 856 bytes --]

On Monday 30 August 2004 04:51 am, Duncan wrote:
> The trouble is that's the upstream choice.  From kdebase 3.3.0's
> ./configure --help:
>
>  --enable-final  build size optimized apps (experimental [...])
>
> Isn't one of the Gentoo policies to let upstream policy guide where
> possible in such instances?  Anyone that has worked on KDE sources should
> instantly grok what such a use flag is about.  If Gentoo calls it
> something else, it will IMO make things /less/ clear.

no, we have no policy on upstream naming conventions -> USE naming 
conventions ... our policy is to make the USE flags generally clear as to 
what their intent is

you can just as easily call it 'kde-blahblah-flag' and then run `use_enable 
kde-blahblah-flag final` and get the same results as if you had called it 
'final' and run `use_enable final`
-mike

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 838 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[Carsten Lohrke]

On Sunday 29 August 2004 21:42, Spider wrote:
> I'd object to the use of the word "final" for this, since its ambigous
> and hard to comprehend its meaning.  I'd suggest finding a better word
> to describe the flag and its function.

Flags are expected to have comprehensive descriptions and everyone, who 
installed a kde application by hand, will get it w/o any description. In 
which way do you think it's ambigous? If you don't like it, please come up 
with a better name.


Carsten

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] new global use flag and a new category

[William Hubbs]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 30, 2004 at 04:33:21PM +0200, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> On Sunday 29 August 2004 21:42, Spider wrote:
> > I'd object to the use of the word "final" for this, since its ambigous
> > and hard to comprehend its meaning.  I'd suggest finding a better word
> > to describe the flag and its function.
> 
> Flags are expected to have comprehensive descriptions and everyone, who 
> installed a kde application by hand, will get it w/o any description. In 
> which way do you think it's ambigous? If you don't like it, please come up 
> with a better name.

Why not call it kde-final?

William

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBNjVtblQW9DDEZTgRAhmzAJ9TRjDm8g6Apji9+mCNhsX5jTxcfACgqrwS
rWgERHtajVmuBnBNxAOd6yM=
=njVM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list