From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28175 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2004 21:04:34 +0000 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (156.56.111.197) by lists.gentoo.org with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 27 Jul 2004 21:04:34 +0000 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([156.56.111.196] helo=parrot.gentoo.org) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BpZ7h-0007rD-Hf for arch-gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2004 21:04:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 25427 invoked by uid 89); 27 Jul 2004 21:03:53 +0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 25563 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2004 21:03:52 +0000 From: Dylan Carlson Reply-To: absinthe@gentoo.org To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:37:03 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.82 References: <200407271254.50020.absinthe@gentoo.org> <200407271526.46575.absinthe@gentoo.org> <20040727210943.29584a5c@snowdrop.home> In-Reply-To: <20040727210943.29584a5c@snowdrop.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200407271637.04014.absinthe@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Bug voting X-Archives-Salt: cc804e24-3abc-4e6c-ad68-cfffa1c18bee X-Archives-Hash: 3ff9be7e7fd9096f6991581b97d7dbc0 On Tuesday 27 July 2004 4:09 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > > Uh, no. They are assumptions based upon a very large body of direct > evidence. Since we can't go and ask every single user what they think, > that's the best we can get. No, that's the best you have, which is another way of saying, nothing. The problem here is that you presume to know what is best for everyone, and worse, what everyone else wants. > That's just it, though. Doesn't take much effort to get a few hundred > Off The Wall readers to register multiple accounts and vote-bomb a bug > because it's 'funny' or 'cool'. Like I said, search for "portage > ignorance" in Off The Wall and you'll see a perfect example. bugzilla != phpbb And I'll say it again: voting works great for KDE and Mozilla-- which are very large projects such as ours (if not larger). > No, the top-10 will end up containing "support reiser4 in g-d-s" and > "add kernel-I'm-not-allowed-to-name to portage". See aforementioned OTW > thread. Again, assumptions. Even if that were true, and most of our users wanted reiser4 in g-d-s, then I hope we would at least give them some time to consider it. > You're assuming that a) votes equate to what our users want, and b) our > users understand every single issue involved. As Peter already > suggested, the subtle but important bugs won't get voted on, because > most people don't know what they're about. a) I'm not assuming that. The numbers are what they are. Among Gentoo users who are in Bugzilla, and voting. (x) votes have been cast for this bug. Nothing more, nothing less. b) Subtle but important to whom? You? Yes, I can see why letting people vote would be a problem for you. It would potentially shift the priorities from the things you feel are important to what the users feel are important. > Our interface is already complex enough that most people need a wizard. > Why add even more to it? Because it encourages participation in the process of developing Gentoo. It gives people a feature to tell us what's important to them, instead of just filing bugs which, to some users, seem to be a black hole. Voting gives people a simple way of expressing, "this is important to me". Perhaps it would lead to less people filing blocker/critical bugs if they felt they could attract attention to a bug by other means. Package feedback as a separate effort is good, but that doesn't address bugs which address all of Gentoo, as a project including our documentation, infrastructure, etc. > Of course it's irrelevant. The colour of the bike shed doesn't matter. > Whether or not we enable a feature which could end up causing serious > problems for developers matters a lot. Two entirely separate issues. Really. How would enabling voting cause "serious problems" for developers? 1. It doesn't change how you (or anyone else) is using Bugzilla 2. It's a completely opt-in feature, for users and devs alike 3. It can be quickly disabled at any time. Sure, serious problems there. Cheers, Dylan Carlson [absinthe@gentoo.org] Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x708E165F -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list