[gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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Hi,

I've been told that, if I want to get a package marked stable on the other 
arches, I have to raise a bug in bugzilla (good), and add the aliases for 
each of the individual arches in turn (bad).

Wouldn't it be much easier if there was a single alias (say) arches@gentoo.org 
that these types of bug could be assigned to?

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Alexander Gabert]

Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've been told that, if I want to get a package marked stable on the other 
> arches, I have to raise a bug in bugzilla (good), and add the aliases for 
> each of the individual arches in turn (bad).
> 
> Wouldn't it be much easier if there was a single alias (say) arches@gentoo.org 
> that these types of bug could be assigned to?
> 
> Best regards,
> Stu
good idea, but i think arches@gentoo.org should be an alias to the 
responsible arch maintainers rather than the groups themselves (too 
crowded sometimes)

you could also make it "arch-keywording"@gentoo.org

But being as mnemonic(?sp) as possible, arches@gentoo.org is just fine i 
think.

And put a big sign on the HP and the usual developer manuals for 
beginners to "stumble upon" that info ASAP when beginning to work in 
portage.

Thanks,

Alex

-- 
Chaos is just a perceptional disorder of reality.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Jeremy Huddleston]

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> > Wouldn't it be much easier if there was a single alias (say) arches@gentoo.org 
> > that these types of bug could be assigned to?

> good idea, but i think arches@gentoo.org should be an alias to the 
> responsible arch maintainers rather than the groups themselves (too 
> crowded sometimes)

I believe that's what he meant... but I'm against using arches@g.o for
that sort of thing because it will generate useless spam for arches that
don't need to be notified...  plus most arch maintainers won't notice
those bugs because they're not assigned to their arch... they don't want
to dig through all the arches@ bug reports to find ones that pertain to
them still...

Plus, if you assign it to the arches, they can remove themselves from
the bug once they have taken care of it for their arch and not be
bothered by it any more...

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Thierry Carrez]

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Stuart Herbert wrote:

> I've been told that, if I want to get a package marked stable on the
other
> arches, I have to raise a bug in bugzilla (good), and add the aliases for
> each of the individual arches in turn (bad).
>
> Wouldn't it be much easier if there was a single alias (say)
arches@gentoo.org
> that these types of bug could be assigned to?

There is already the arch-maintainers@gentoo.org address that can be
used to contact all teams.

For security keywording, we use arch-maintainers when all arches are
required to keyword (rare), and individual arch aliases when only a few
arches are concerned.

- -K
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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 11:00, Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
> I believe that's what he meant... but I'm against using arches@g.o for
> that sort of thing because it will generate useless spam for arches that
> don't need to be notified...  plus most arch maintainers won't notice
> those bugs because they're not assigned to their arch... they don't want
> to dig through all the arches@ bug reports to find ones that pertain to
> them still...
>
> Plus, if you assign it to the arches, they can remove themselves from
> the bug once they have taken care of it for their arch and not be
> bothered by it any more...

Well, having to manually add all the arches by hand is error-prone.  Plus, 
just keeping track of all the arches isn't easy either. No-one maintains a 
list of valid arches + aliases on www.g.o (have you *seen* how out of date 
the Project Listing is atm?).

So, I'm sorry about the inconvenience this might cause the arch teams, but not 
having an alias like this seems more inconvenient for the rest of the devs - 
ie the majority of us.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 11:02, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> There is already the arch-maintainers@gentoo.org address that can be
> used to contact all teams.

Perfect.  Unless anyone has a better suggestion, I'd like to start assigning 
bugs to that address in order to get the packages marked as stable on non-x86 
arches.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Grant Goodyear]

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Stuart Herbert wrote: [Thu Jul 22 2004, 06:53:32AM EDT]
> Well, having to manually add all the arches by hand is error-prone.  Plus, 
> just keeping track of all the arches isn't easy either. No-one maintains a 
> list of valid arches + aliases on www.g.o (have you *seen* how out of date 
> the Project Listing is atm?).
> 
> So, I'm sorry about the inconvenience this might cause the arch teams, but not 
> having an alias like this seems more inconvenient for the rest of the devs - 
> ie the majority of us.

To the best of my knowledge each arch has the respective ${arch}@g.o
e-mail address, so all that is needed to identify the archs to add to
the bug is "grep KEYWORDS *.ebuild".  I suspect that if somebody asked
agriffis nicely he's write a quick script to identify all distinct
keywords to make things even less error prone (perhaps even spitting out
the bugzilla-friendly list of e-mail addresses, so one could just
cut&paste), and I'd much rather do that than swamp the
usually-understaffed alternative arch teams w/ unnecessary bug reports.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Carsten Lohrke]

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Is this one acceptable?

#! /bin/bash

if [ -n "$*" ] ; then
	for F in "$@" ; do
		EMAIL="${F} -"
		for ARCH in `grep KEYWORD ${F} | sed -e "s/~//g" -e "s/KEYWORDS=\"//" -re 
"s/\".*//"` ; do
			EMAIL="${EMAIL} ${ARCH}@gentoo.org"
		done
		echo "${EMAIL}"
	done
fi
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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 12:23, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> the bug is "grep KEYWORDS *.ebuild".  

Hrm.  How many ebuilds have a KEYWORDS list that is anything like close to the 
full list of available arches?

> I suspect that if somebody asked 
> agriffis nicely he's write a quick script to identify all distinct
> keywords to make things even less error prone (perhaps even spitting out
> the bugzilla-friendly list of e-mail addresses, so one could just
> cut&paste), and I'd much rather do that than swamp the
> usually-understaffed alternative arch teams w/ unnecessary bug reports.

Scripts have the disadvantage that you have to log into a Gentoo machine to 
run them.  An alias in bugzilla, on the other hand, is web-based, and is 
accessable from work when my Gentoo box may not be.

Maybe the answer is to add a new product to bugzilla, along with a suitable 
template?

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Lance Albertson]

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Stuart Herbert wrote:

> Hrm.  How many ebuilds have a KEYWORDS list that is anything like close to the 
> full list of available arches?

I'd say take a look at http://gentoo.tamperd.net/stable/ and see how your herd
is doing on keywording for archs. That page is a nice tool to help developers
figure out packages that need to be

I still think that adding each arch individually to the cc: list is the best
option. If you created one arch alias, people on that alias will have to
continue seeing reports for archs they aren't worried about. Doing it this way
seems to work for the security folks. Also, I think there's really only 4-5
major archs that people use, so keeping track of each arch shouldn't be hard. If
the site is outdated, find the person in charge of the page and get it updated.

I'm curious how the arch maintainers would prefer getting this done. Any of your
out there want to comment on this?

-- 
Lance Albertson <ramereth@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Infrastructure

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Kurt Lieber]

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On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 11:53:32AM +0100 or thereabouts, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Well, having to manually add all the arches by hand is error-prone.  Plus, 
> just keeping track of all the arches isn't easy either. No-one maintains a 
> list of valid arches + aliases on www.g.o (have you *seen* how out of date 
> the Project Listing is atm?).
> 
> So, I'm sorry about the inconvenience this might cause the arch teams, but not 
> having an alias like this seems more inconvenient for the rest of the devs - 
> ie the majority of us.

As Thierry already noted, this alias already exists in arch-maintainers.
However, I don't think using it as you're suggesting is that great of an
idea.  As Jeremy already pointed out, adding this alias prevents a specific
arch from removing themselves after they've acted on a particular bug.
Assuming baselayout has all the arches that folks are currently working on,
that gives us a list of:

x86 ppc sparc mips alpha arm hppa amd64 ia64 ppc64 s390

That means that each arch will receive up to *eleven* emails for each bug
and there's nothing they can do to prevent that.  This is going to
dramatically increase the signal/noise ratio (which is already bad enough)
and make it very difficult for folks to use email alerts about bugs
effectively.

What is the problem we're trying to solve here?  Can aliz's aging ebuild
script solve that?  (or be extended to solve that?)

--kurt

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 13:55, Kurt Lieber wrote:
> Assuming baselayout has all the arches that folks are currently working on,
> that gives us a list of:
>
> x86 ppc sparc mips alpha arm hppa amd64 ia64 ppc64 s390

Isn't that list missing the bsd and the macos arches?

> What is the problem we're trying to solve here?

a) There doesn't seem to be a definitive list of ARCH's to assign bugs to
   (and the list changes anyway).  I don't like guesswork.
b) Adding a cc per arch per bug is time consuming and error-prone.
c) There doesn't seem to be a definitive way to file bugs for ARCH's and
   marking packages as stable
d) Assigning bugs to 'arch-maintainers@g.o' will result in too much email
   for the people who read it

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Peter Westwood]

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On Thu, July 22, 2004 2:32 pm, Stuart Herbert said:
> On Thursday 22 July 2004 13:55, Kurt Lieber wrote:
>> Assuming baselayout has all the arches that folks are currently working
>> on,
>> that gives us a list of:
>>
>> x86 ppc sparc mips alpha arm hppa amd64 ia64 ppc64 s390
>
> Isn't that list missing the bsd and the macos arches?
>
>> What is the problem we're trying to solve here?
>
> a) There doesn't seem to be a definitive list of ARCH's to assign bugs to
>    (and the list changes anyway).  I don't like guesswork.
> b) Adding a cc per arch per bug is time consuming and error-prone.
> c) There doesn't seem to be a definitive way to file bugs for ARCH's and
>    marking packages as stable
> d) Assigning bugs to 'arch-maintainers@g.o' will result in too much email
>    for the people who read it
>

/me dons flame proof suit and stops lurking

Some possible solutions to improve this process based on the current
practice of CC'ing arch@gentoo.org

How about adding a button to the bugzilla layout for users with developer
level privs which adds all known archs to the CC: list?

Or how about a simple cmdline tool using "dev-perl/WWW-Bugzilla" which
takes a bug number and CC's all known archs@gentoo.org

Both of these would maintain the desired process but make it much easier
for the developer requesting to achieve.

- --
Peter
peter.westwood@ftwr.co.uk

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Jason Wever]

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Stuart Herbert wrote:

> On Thursday 22 July 2004 11:02, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > There is already the arch-maintainers@gentoo.org address that can be
> > used to contact all teams.
> 
> Perfect.  Unless anyone has a better suggestion, I'd like to start assigning 
> bugs to that address in order to get the packages marked as stable on non-x86 
> arches.

Please don't use arch-maintainers@gentoo.org for this.  Typically in a 
given day, I have trouble keeping up on all my Gentoo email (and I know 
I'm not the only one here) and having to sort through even more email that 
doesn't apply to me is counter-productive.

Would it be possible to easily create some kind of assignment target in 
bugzilla so that say if you picked arch-maintainers, it would translate it 
into the individual arch teams' email aliases?

I really don't mean to be a pain in the ass, honestly. :)

- -- 
Jason Wever
Gentoo/Sparc Co-Team Lead
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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 22 July 2004 09:32 am, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Isn't that list missing the bsd and the macos arches?

yes but they arent mature enough right now to warrent this kind of 
matintanence ... all the other archs are imho

> a) There doesn't seem to be a definitive list of ARCH's to assign bugs to
>    (and the list changes anyway).  I don't like guesswork.

look at keywords.desc in /usr/portage/profiles/ ... if your KEYWORD isnt 
mentioned in there, it shouldnt exist in the tree
for stabilizing packages, look at the KEYWORDS already in the ebuild for your 
list
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:55:06 +0100 Stuart Herbert <stuart@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Thursday 22 July 2004 11:02, Thierry Carrez wrote:
| > There is already the arch-maintainers@gentoo.org address that can be
| > used to contact all teams.
| 
| Perfect.  Unless anyone has a better suggestion, I'd like to start
| assigning bugs to that address in order to get the packages marked as
| stable on non-x86 arches.

Don't. We can't remove ourselves from the list once we're done.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:32:31 +0100 Stuart Herbert <stuart@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| b) Adding a cc per arch per bug is time consuming and error-prone.

Wouldn't it be a bit better to spend slightly more of your time to get
the bug right than to spend a lot of every single arch dev's time trying
to figure out whether you *really* meant "all archs" and whether the bug
has been fixed on their arch already?

Chances are, you don't really mean all archs anyway.

(Sidenote, which certain people on the security alias really should
remember to avoid spamming us with a dozen or so emails: you can add
more than one Cc: at once, just separate them with spaces.)

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 16:15, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Wouldn't it be a bit better to spend slightly more of your time to get
> the bug right than to spend a lot of every single arch dev's time trying
> to figure out whether you *really* meant "all archs" and whether the bug
> has been fixed on their arch already?

Sure.  But we've already established that there isn't a single place to look 
for a list of arches.  I believe we left the conversation on IRC with Kurt 
looking into how to solve that one.

> Chances are, you don't really mean all archs anyway.

Chances are I mean all but the one I use.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 16:58:51 +0100 Stuart Herbert <stuart@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Thursday 22 July 2004 16:15, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Wouldn't it be a bit better to spend slightly more of your time to
| > get the bug right than to spend a lot of every single arch dev's
| > time trying to figure out whether you *really* meant "all archs" and
| > whether the bug has been fixed on their arch already?
| 
| Sure.  But we've already established that there isn't a single place
| to look for a list of arches.  I believe we left the conversation on
| IRC with Kurt looking into how to solve that one.

Look in the existing KEYWORDS of the package in question. Or, if you
prefer, nick the eshowkw script from my bashrc [1] and let it do it for
you :) Or, look in arch.list.

Disclaimer: that script is an ugly hack and now needs about a 120
character wide terminal. I might change the layout sometime...

| > Chances are, you don't really mean all archs anyway.
| 
| Chances are I mean all but the one I use.

Not many packages are keyworded on absolutely every arch. s390 and macos
come to mind.

[1]: http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm/configs/bashrc.html

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 22 July 2004 12:04 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Or, look in arch.list.

i think you meant to say keyword.desc
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 22 July 2004 17:04, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Look in the existing KEYWORDS of the package in question. 

Not good enough for what I want.  I want to get packages onto as many arches 
as possible, not maintain the status quo.

> Or, look in arch.list.

That's a list of valid arch's, but not a valid list of aliases for bugzilla.  
It's part of the solution, but I'm after more.

> Disclaimer: that script is an ugly hack and now needs about a 120
> character wide terminal. I might change the layout sometime...

Heh.  The script is useful, but requires me to be able to log into a Gentoo 
box to run it.

> Not many packages are keyworded on absolutely every arch. s390 and macos
> come to mind.

So? :)  Why shouldn't I be asking for all the arch teams to look at my 
packages?  If ebuild maintainers don't ask, how are we going to get more 
packages onto the other arches?

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 22 July 2004 01:50 pm, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> That's a list of valid arch's, but not a valid list of aliases for
> bugzilla. It's part of the solution, but I'm after more.

ignoring OS X and the BSDs, every arch has a bugzilla account in the form of 
arch@gentoo.org

so it is a valid list of aliases for bugzilla
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Re: A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Michael Sterrett -Mr. Bones.-]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Mike Frysinger wrote:

> ignoring OS X and the BSDs, every arch has a bugzilla account in the form of 
> arch@gentoo.org

osx@gentoo.org works and I've been chucking macos bugs there for the
past week.

Michael Sterrett
  -Mr. Bones.-
mr_bones_@gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:28:50 -0400 Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| On Thursday 22 July 2004 12:04 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Or, look in arch.list.
| 
| i think you meant to say keyword.desc

Why, what's wrong with arch.list?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-dev] A new 'arches@gentoo.org' alias for bugzilla?

[Mike Frysinger]

On Thursday 22 July 2004 08:15 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Why, what's wrong with arch.list?

err nothing ... you're right

we want arch.list over keywords.desc :)

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35398
-mike

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