[gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Stuart Herbert]

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Hi,

The latest revision of the plan to break up net-www is now available at:

	http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/www-split.txt

All feedback from the last revision should have been incorporated.  If you 
talked to me requesting a change, please make sure that your change has made 
it into this version of the list.

Ideally, I'd love to be able to tell users about the upcoming change in next 
week's GWN, with the actual change to happen week starting Mon 19th July.

Feedback sought.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Grant Goodyear]

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Here's some additional changes/comments:

dev-python quixote is a web framework, so it should really go into
www-something (www-apps, I suppose, but it's really a framework, not
an app).  Also, I know that liquidx would like to start moving apps
written in python out of dev-python into more useful categories, so in
that spirit we should really move mod_python and skunkweb (neither of
which are python _development_ tools) into more relevant categories.  I
gather that skunkweb is also a python web framework, so it should go
wherever quixote ends up, and I would think that we would probably want
a category for apache modules (which would give mod_python a home).  All
that said, I'm hardly a web expert, so I'm willing to let the experts
make the decisions here.

Best,
g2boojum
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Stuart Herbert]

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Hi Grant,

Thanks for the feedback.

On Thursday 08 July 2004 15:50, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Here's some additional changes/comments:
>
> dev-python quixote is a web framework, so it should really go into
> www-something (www-apps, I suppose, but it's really a framework, not
> an app).  

I'm a strong believer that dev-<lang> is the place for language-specific 
frameworks.  www-apps really is not the place.

> Also, I know that liquidx would like to start moving apps 
> written in python out of dev-python into more useful categories, so in
> that spirit we should really move mod_python and skunkweb (neither of
> which are python _development_ tools) into more relevant categories.  I
> gather that skunkweb is also a python web framework, so it should go
> wherever quixote ends up, and I would think that we would probably want
> a category for apache modules (which would give mod_python a home).  All
> that said, I'm hardly a web expert, so I'm willing to let the experts
> make the decisions here.

I think that things like mod_python, mod_php, mod_mono are not clear cut.  
Personally I like the arrangement we have with PHP, where mod_php lives in 
dev-php.  That seems very natural and intuitive.  I would prefer mod_python 
to live in dev-python for now for the same reason.

I believe that skunkworks, like quixote, belongs in dev-python, as it is a 
language-specific framework.  Developers who need it can easily find it, and 
users who need it will have it automatically installed as a DEPEND or RDEPEND 
as appropriate.

If dev-<lang> isn't going to contain the language runtime, and isn't going to 
contain the application frameworks for the languages, there seems little 
point in maintaining the dev-<lang> categories at all.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Grant Goodyear]

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Stuart Herbert wrote: [Thu Jul 08 2004, 11:11:36AM EDT]
> I think that things like mod_python, mod_php, mod_mono are not clear cut.  
> Personally I like the arrangement we have with PHP, where mod_php lives in 
> dev-php.  That seems very natural and intuitive.  I would prefer mod_python 
> to live in dev-python for now for the same reason.

For what it's worth, I also argued that php (the language itself) should
be in dev-lang, not dev-php, so using similar reasoning for mod_python
doesn't really appeal to me.  Just as the languages are in dev-lang, I
feel that the language-specific apache modules should be in www-apache
(with the caveat that mod_php should probably remain in dev-php because
that's the preferred choice of the php folks).
> 
> I believe that skunkworks, like quixote, belongs in dev-python, as it is a 
> language-specific framework.  Developers who need it can easily find it, and 
> users who need it will have it automatically installed as a DEPEND or RDEPEND 
> as appropriate.

I can accept that argument.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 08 July 2004 16:41, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> For what it's worth, I also argued that php (the language itself) should
> be in dev-lang, not dev-php, so using similar reasoning for mod_python
> doesn't really appeal to me.  Just as the languages are in dev-lang, I
> feel that the language-specific apache modules should be in www-apache
> (with the caveat that mod_php should probably remain in dev-php because
> that's the preferred choice of the php folks).

Hrm.  The whole dev-lang debate is an issue that I think will run as long as 
there is a Gentoo.  It's not something I'm looking to resolve with this 
re-org.

I think the best thing to do is this.  If a mod_* maintainer wants to put his 
mod_* package into www-apache rather than dev-<lang>, then okay - provided 
Zul also agrees to this.  Apache's his thing after all.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Alastair Tse]

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On 8 Jul 2004, at 04:29, Stuart Herbert wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The latest revision of the plan to break up net-www is now available 
> at:
>
> 	http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/www-split.txt
>
>

Along with Grant's comments about mod_python moving to www-apache (I 
totally agree with that, BTW), here's another thing I'd like to add.

net-www/screem should go into app-editors. its an HTML editor, not 
actually a development utility

As for web frameworks (skunkweb/quixnote), I'm not sure what to do with 
them. I think in some sense, you might be better off keeping them in 
dev-python for now.. Doesn't really fit into either www-apache or 
www-apps. I'm not really concerned about them too much, but definitely 
would like mod_python moved out to www-apache.

Cheers,
- --
Alastair 'liquidx' Tse
  >> Gentoo Developer (Python/GNOME/CJK/PDA/Bluetooth)
  >> http://www.liquidx.net/ | http://dev.gentoo.org/~liquidx/
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Carsten Lohrke]

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Is it worth adding a new category for _five_ plugins?


Carsten
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Thursday 08 July 2004 17:50, Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> Is it worth adding a new category for _five_ plugins?
>
>
> Carsten

People asked for it.  There are probably more plugins that I missed.

I'm quite happy to chuck them all into x11-plugins ;-) but that just seems 
like moving packages from one dumping ground to another.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
                                                   http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Carsten Lohrke]

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On Thursday 08 July 2004 19:30, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> I'm quite happy to chuck them all into x11-plugins ;-) but that just seems
> like moving packages from one dumping ground to another.
I thought more about www-misc - at least until there are a few more.


Carsten
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Marius Mauch]

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On 07/08/04  Carsten Lohrke wrote:

> Is it worth adding a new category for _five_ plugins?

Well, I can imagine that it will explode if we'll ever start to make
ebuilds for mozilla/firefox plugins/addons/extensions (don't know if
that's likely or not).

Marius

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In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Revised: net-www break-up list

[Carsten Lohrke]

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On Thursday 08 July 2004 19:32, Marius Mauch wrote:
> Well, I can imagine that it will explode if we'll ever start to make
> ebuilds for mozilla/firefox plugins/addons/extensions (don't know if
> that's likely or not).
When will that happen!? ;)

I just don't see the advantage, adding a new category for such a small number 
of packages and having catch-all categories like app-misc and x11-misc with 
~200 packages on the other side. I thought about adding a kde-misc category 
myself, but could only find less than twenty packages that would fit in, so I 
dropped the idea. If five packages (and possibly a few more in the future) 
make a new category...


Carsten


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