[gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Spider]

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okay,  I hope I'm not breaking news here about the win2k source code
leak.  However, I also hope that you all display enough common sense not
to download it, even if you just want to gloat a bit at the comments.  

The vision of a set of cute lawsuits (SCO style) from MS targetted at
various OSS/FS projects with a wide range of assaults, where the
evidence is simply ISP logs showing an IP downloading said source is
pretty frightening.   

 Imagine the reprecautions for projects like
Samba, Gnome, KDE, and other technologies that can be seen as
"infringing" on some of MS turf. Its an easy, blunt lega weapon to weild
against whole projects, stating that all progress past this point is
only because you copied MS sources, weilding a large batch of patents,
tradesecrets and copyright infringement claims and slamming large and
wide.

  please, dont fall for the temptation.
//Spider


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[marduk]

On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 17:33, Spider wrote:
[...]
>   please, dont fall for the temptation.

So does that mean then I should "emerge -C win2k-sources"???
LOL j/k.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Sean Johnson]

On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 18:33, Spider wrote:
> where the
> evidence is simply ISP logs showing an IP downloading said source is
> pretty frightening.   

...and Bob, now we see Johnny Cochran slowly rising to deliver his
famous Chewbacca .. no! wait! Cochran is going where no lawyer has gone
before, and actually implementing the heretofore only theorized "But I
just have a sucky modem" defense! This case is about to become very
interesting indeed Bob ... 


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Chris Smith]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:33, Spider wrote:
> okay,  I hope I'm not breaking news here about the win2k source code
> leak.  However, I also hope that you all display enough common sense not
> to download it, even if you just want to gloat a bit at the comments.
>
> The vision of a set of cute lawsuits (SCO style) from MS targetted at
> various OSS/FS projects with a wide range of assaults, where the
> evidence is simply ISP logs showing an IP downloading said source is
> pretty frightening.
>
>  Imagine the reprecautions for projects like
> Samba, Gnome, KDE, and other technologies that can be seen as
> "infringing" on some of MS turf. Its an easy, blunt lega weapon to weild
> against whole projects, stating that all progress past this point is
> only because you copied MS sources, weilding a large batch of patents,
> tradesecrets and copyright infringement claims and slamming large and
> wide.
>
>   please, dont fall for the temptation.
> //Spider

Thats a good call spider, There were a lot of people on /. saying the same 
thing.

For more information about the leak the /. article is here (with 1302 
comments :o):
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/12/2114228&mode=nested&tid=109&tid=187


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Lisa Seelye]

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On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 18:33, Spider wrote:
>  Imagine the reprecautions for projects like
> Samba, Gnome, KDE, and other technologies that can be seen as
> "infringing" on some of MS turf. Its an easy, blunt lega weapon to weild
> against whole projects, stating that all progress past this point is
> only because you copied MS sources, weilding a large batch of patents,
> tradesecrets and copyright infringement claims and slamming large and
> wide.

Let the conspiracy theories fly!

-- 
Regards,
-Lisa
<Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Joshua Brindle]

Lisa Seelye wrote:

> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 18:33, Spider wrote:
> 
>> Imagine the reprecautions for projects like
>>Samba, Gnome, KDE, and other technologies that can be seen as
>>"infringing" on some of MS turf. Its an easy, blunt lega weapon to weild
>>against whole projects, stating that all progress past this point is
>>only because you copied MS sources, weilding a large batch of patents,
>>tradesecrets and copyright infringement claims and slamming large and
>>wide.
> 
> 
> Let the conspiracy theories fly!
> 
This was really inappropriate lisa, there is nothing funny nor 
delusional about the situation. MS will seriously defend their trade 
secrets and take whatever action necessary to protect the code. Since 
projects like Samba, Gnome, KDE, etc have many overlapping components 
with Windows it could be devestating to those projects AND the GPL if 
they are found to have copied code from MS. We may not have many 
windows-like components but we do maintain ties with KDE, etc.

Spider is absolutely right, if you value the GPL and Gentoo you won't 
even think about the MS code, just forget about it and go on with your work.

Joshua Brindle


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[John Mylchreest]

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On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 19:46, Joshua Brindle wrote:
> Lisa Seelye wrote:
> > Let the conspiracy theories fly!

> This was really inappropriate lisa, there is nothing funny nor 
> delusional about the situation. MS will seriously defend their trade 
> secrets and take whatever action necessary to protect the code. Since 
> projects like Samba, Gnome, KDE, etc have many overlapping components 
> with Windows it could be devestating to those projects AND the GPL if 
> they are found to have copied code from MS. We may not have many 
> windows-like components but we do maintain ties with KDE, etc.
> 
> Spider is absolutely right, if you value the GPL and Gentoo you won't 
> even think about the MS code, just forget about it and go on with your work.

I'm quite sure Lisa meant this in jest, so lets just treat it as such.
Of course the issue is a serious one, but as I'm sure others would
agree, I cannot think of a developer who doesnt have the GPL moral value
ingrained within their persona, so perhaps we should just keep the point
Spider mentioned in our minds, and make it Business As Usual.

As I am sure will come out in the SCO vs Linux case, the GPL licence is
a valid one, and has its own legal weight as well.

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John Mylchreest

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:25:53 -0500
Lisa Seelye <lisa@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 18:33, Spider wrote:
> >  Imagine the reprecautions for projects like
> > Samba, Gnome, KDE, and other technologies that can be seen as
> > "infringing" on some of MS turf. Its an easy, blunt lega weapon to
> > weild against whole projects, stating that all progress past this
> > point is only because you copied MS sources, weilding a large batch
> > of patents, tradesecrets and copyright infringement claims and
> > slamming large and wide.


> Let the conspiracy theories fly!

Ha. Ha.

Yes, if you start to think that "Ms released the code on purpouse", in
order to get a legal edge on the Open Source /Free Software projects,
then you can discuss conspiracy theories. However, it wouldn't be the
first time from MS side to go at people for tradesecrets,
copyright- or patent-infringement. 

//Spider

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Mirian Crzig Lennox]

spider@gentoo.org (Spider) writes:
> Lisa Seelye <lisa@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> Let the conspiracy theories fly!
>
> Yes, if you start to think that "Ms released the code on purpouse",
> in order to get a legal edge on the Open Source /Free Software
> projects, then you can discuss conspiracy theories.

Like for starters that the code was leaked by one of Microsoft's own
development partners... by the technology director... from an "evil"
Linux box.

      <http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/35564.html>

Agreed that no self-respecting GPLer would touch that code with a
3.048-metre pole.  Nonetheless, this whole situation fairly *reeks* of
a set up.

Perhaps they're praying that if enough people get hold of their code,
someone out there will fix it for them.

cheers,
Mirian

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Thomas T. Veldhouse]

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Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
> 
> 
> Like for starters that the code was leaked by one of Microsoft's own
> development partners... by the technology director... from an "evil"
> Linux box.
> 
>       <http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/35564.html>
> 
> Agreed that no self-respecting GPLer would touch that code with a
> 3.048-metre pole.  Nonetheless, this whole situation fairly *reeks* of
> a set up.
> 
> Perhaps they're praying that if enough people get hold of their code,
> someone out there will fix it for them.
> 

Did I hear somebody say SCO ... but with no strings attached?

Tom Veldhouse

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[purslow]

040215 Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
> Lisa Seelye <lisa@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Let the conspiracy theories fly!
> Perhaps they're praying that if enough people get hold of their code,
> someone out there will fix it for them.

certainly, i've always suspected one important reason M$ is so secretive
is that their code is so full of awful holes & blunders,
what reput'n they have wdn't survive a few weeks, if it were made public.

Spider is quite right to warn all OSSers to be careful what they do,
but let's remember that free-software workers far outnumber M$ cadres
&  95 %  humans are not subject to the repressive US legal system,
so M$ wd have a v hard time, if they tried that kind of attack.

someone quoted via Linux Today suggested M$ shd simply GPL their code,
knowing that it wb quickly audited & secured by OS programmers
making it a far better product -- already in Worldwide use -- ,
st they cd continue to make  USD G's  from consulting & specialist services.
not as good as Gentoo, of course, but adequate for the masses ...

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[gentoo-dev] [OT] Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[Joseph Pingenot]

>From purslow@sympatico.ca on Sunday, 15 February, 2004:
>but let's remember that free-software workers far outnumber M$ cadres
>&  95 %  humans are not subject to the repressive US legal system,
>so M$ wd have a v hard time, if they tried that kind of attack.

I agree that it has its warts, but "repressive" is a vast overstatement,
  imho.  There are *much* worse systems out there which deserve that
  moniker.
I know it's currently popular to bash the US, but please don't.

-Joseph

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      Graduate Student in Physics, Freelance Free Software Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [OT] Re: [gentoo-dev] Developers beware.

[purslow]

040216 Joseph Pingenot wrote:
>> From purslow@sympatico.ca on Sunday, 15 February, 2004:
>> but let's remember that free-software workers far outnumber M$ cadres
>> &  95 %  humans are not subject to the repressive US legal system,
>> so M$ wd have a v hard time, if they tried that kind of attack.
> I agree that it has its warts, but "repressive" is a vast overstatement,
> There are *much* worse systems out there which deserve that moniker.
> I know it's currently popular to bash the US, but please don't.

yes, i'm aware this is a sensitive subject & largely OT for Gentoo-dev,
but the OP -- whose warning i said was sensible -- like so many others
did sound as if everyone is subject to the US legal system.
that is by no means the case, as Hollywood & M$ are finding out in Europe.
people in Canada & Europe are not as frightened of being hit
w a legal sledgehammer as most US residents seem to be, rightly/not:
our societies are based on consensus rather than continual confront'n.

but largely OT ... (smile)

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[gentoo-dev] [Very OT]

[Joseph Pingenot]

>From purslow@sympatico.ca on Monday, 16 February, 2004:
>040216 Joseph Pingenot wrote:
>>> From purslow@sympatico.ca on Sunday, 15 February, 2004:
>>> but let's remember that free-software workers far outnumber M$ cadres
>>> &  95 %  humans are not subject to the repressive US legal system,
>>> so M$ wd have a v hard time, if they tried that kind of attack.
>> I agree that it has its warts, but "repressive" is a vast overstatement,
>> There are *much* worse systems out there which deserve that moniker.
>> I know it's currently popular to bash the US, but please don't.
>yes, i'm aware this is a sensitive subject & largely OT for Gentoo-dev,
>but the OP -- whose warning i said was sensible -- like so many others
>did sound as if everyone is subject to the US legal system.

No, but a *lot* of the world is sensitive to Microsoft's money, either
  through direct bribes or ability to hire huge legal squads.

>that is by no means the case, as Hollywood & M$ are finding out in Europe.
>people in Canada & Europe are not as frightened of being hit
>w a legal sledgehammer as most US residents seem to be, rightly/not:
>our societies are based on consensus rather than continual confront'n.

*sigh* WTF, mate?  From my experience, the world is about the same
  in terms of consensus and confrontation.  Just that somehow the US
  is seen/portrayed as "worse" than the others in popular liberal
  belief and media.

I'd agree that the US legal system could do with more consensus and less
  confrontation, but this is a common problem.  I don't see it being
  much different around the globe.

I think your stereotype of the US is very flawed, and your view of
  your own nation (and Europe) is as well.

>but largely OT ... (smile)

yes.  Very largely OT.  I will post no more on the subject.

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Developers beware.

[Sebastian Bergmann]

Spider wrote:
> please, dont fall for the temptation.

  Someone from the PHP Project already received a mail from Microsoft, see
  http://www.derickrethans.nl/20040214.php

  Greetings,
Sebastian

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Developers beware.

[Mirian Crzig Lennox]

sb@sebastian-bergmann.de (Sebastian Bergmann) writes:
> Someone from the PHP Project already received a mail from Microsoft, see
> http://www.derickrethans.nl/20040214.php

That's truly scary, especially when you consider how many "wareZ
kiddieZ" use compromised machines to store and move their contraband.

Ironically, Microsoft may well discover that their dragnet is scooping
up mainly victims of their own bugs and security holes.  What a public
relations nightmare that would be.

Mirian

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