[gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Tal Peer]

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Hi,
I'm currently co-maintaining (with coronalvr) some packages which are used 
by middle-eastern users (namely - fribidi, hspell, bidiv, and i'm probably 
forgetting something here..).

Now, those packages are currently herdless because i'm not sure what 
strategy should be taken when assigning them to herds.
There are two options regarding that:

a) Creating a general i18n herd for all i18n-related packages (the cjk 
herd could probably be merged into that).
b) Creating specialized herds for each region/language group - ie. 
middle-east, cjk, anything else?

I think option B is better because, for example, i've absolutely no 
knowledge of CJK, so if someone will ask me something about one of the cjk 
packages (because he'll see me as a maintainer for the i18n herd) i'll 
have to redirect him to someone else in the herd == inefficency.

Your comments are more than welcome.

- --
Tal Peer
Gentoo Developer

Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x253D2947
Key Fingerprint: C0B1 D91D 7323 6C0F 227A CBD6 D635 E53D 253D 2947

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Sunday 19 October 2003 19:32, Tal Peer wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm currently co-maintaining (with coronalvr) some packages which are used
> by middle-eastern users (namely - fribidi, hspell, bidiv, and i'm probably
> forgetting something here..).
>
> Your comments are more than welcome.

I think one other main issue is the forming of an i18n project. This could be 
a subproject of desktop. There are many issues that are similar accross all 
i18n targets except US English. Allready look at XIM and the related 
complexity. So try to get together other people who are working on i18n. Form 
a subproject, and decide together which herds you will use. Just know that 
herds normally should have at least 2 maintainers.

Paul

ps. You might also want to look at being a secondary herd for packages that 
need i18n specific changes/configuration

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Luke-Jr]

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On Sunday 19 October 2003 05:32 pm, Tal Peer wrote:
> Now, those packages are currently herdless because i'm not sure what
> strategy should be taken when assigning them to herds.
> There are two options regarding that:
>
> a) Creating a general i18n herd for all i18n-related packages (the cjk
> herd could probably be merged into that).
I'd much rather a m17n herd to focus on having all the languages work at 
once... i18n is pretty undesirable, IMO, since it makes systems different.
> b) Creating specialized herds for each region/language group - ie.
> middle-east, cjk, anything else?
That probably makes more sense since such stuff could probably be handled 
better by those who understand the language. But then, some packages involve 
every language so it might get a bit messy...
- -- 
Luke-Jr
Developer, Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org/
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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Svyatogor]

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> Now, those packages are currently herdless because i'm not sure what
> strategy should be taken when assigning them to herds.
> There are two options regarding that:
>
> a) Creating a general i18n herd for all i18n-related packages (the cjk
> herd could probably be merged into that).
> b) Creating specialized herds for each region/language group - ie.
> middle-east, cjk, anything else?

I would deffinetly vote for the second option.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Tal Peer]

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After dicussing this with Paul on IRC, I've decided to go in the following 
path:
Create a i18n subproject of the desktop project (i'm still not 100% sure 
wether it should be a subproject of desktop or a TLP).
Then, create a herd for each region/language group and associate it with 
the project (possible thanks to Paul's great work on projectXML).
Also, it might be necessary to create a i18n-general herd for packages 
that do more or less general i18n work (such as gettext).

Comments are, again, more than welcome. 

- --
Tal Peer
Gentoo Developer

Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x253D2947
Key Fingerprint: C0B1 D91D 7323 6C0F 227A CBD6 D635 E53D 253D 2947

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Mamoru KOMACHI]

Hi,


At Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:21:24 +0200 (IST),
Tal Peer wrote:

> Create a i18n subproject of the desktop project (i'm still not 100% sure 
> wether it should be a subproject of desktop or a TLP).
> Then, create a herd for each region/language group and associate it with 
> the project (possible thanks to Paul's great work on projectXML).

I think i18n herd is too broad and ambiguous so creating each
region/language herd would be better. I'm waiting for Bug #9988
( http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9988 ) to be solved for
supporting each language within Portage system. 


Regards,

-- 
Mamoru KOMACHI <usata@gentoo.org>
http://dev.gentoo.org/~usata/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Monday 20 October 2003 05:10, Luke-Jr wrote:
> >
> > a) Creating a general i18n herd for all i18n-related packages (the cjk
> > herd could probably be merged into that).
>
> I'd much rather a m17n herd to focus on having all the languages work at
> once... i18n is pretty undesirable, IMO, since it makes systems different.

What is m17n? If it is about internationalisation it makes sense to include it 
in the project, but I leave that to the people who are going to do the work.

>
> > b) Creating specialized herds for each region/language group - ie.
> > middle-east, cjk, anything else?
>
> That probably makes more sense since such stuff could probably be handled
> better by those who understand the language. But then, some packages
> involve every language so it might get a bit messy...

That's why I suggested creating a project for all, and having herds for 
specific languages. Many issues are similar for any language != US English. 
The XIM specification is the same for any language. However, specific IM's 
are often only easilly maintained by people who use it (allready because the 
English docs of such things are either lacking or horrible in most cases)

Paul

- -- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Luke-Jr]

(sorry for the toppost; at baka windoze PC right now and Outlook Express
makes anything else impossible)
m17n is multilingualization. Basicly, it's i18n, but having support for all
languages without restarting the application. For example, a m17n-compatible
text editor would let you mix languages within a single document (and
possibly even let you change interface language on the fly, though that
might need a restart of the app).
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul de Vrieze" <pauldv@gentoo.org>
To: <gentoo-dev@gentoo.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd


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On Monday 20 October 2003 05:10, Luke-Jr wrote:
> >
> > a) Creating a general i18n herd for all i18n-related packages (the cjk
> > herd could probably be merged into that).
>
> I'd much rather a m17n herd to focus on having all the languages work at
> once... i18n is pretty undesirable, IMO, since it makes systems different.

What is m17n? If it is about internationalisation it makes sense to include
it
in the project, but I leave that to the people who are going to do the work.

>
> > b) Creating specialized herds for each region/language group - ie.
> > middle-east, cjk, anything else?
>
> That probably makes more sense since such stuff could probably be handled
> better by those who understand the language. But then, some packages
> involve every language so it might get a bit messy...

That's why I suggested creating a project for all, and having herds for
specific languages. Many issues are similar for any language != US English.
The XIM specification is the same for any language. However, specific IM's
are often only easilly maintained by people who use it (allready because the
English docs of such things are either lacking or horrible in most cases)

Paul

- -- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Zarick Lau]

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Hi,

Sorry to interrupt !!
But I'm really have no idea of the meaning of 'herd', can anyone tell me
anything about 'herd'??


Regards,
Zarick Lau
On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 01:32, Tal Peer wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi,
> I'm currently co-maintaining (with coronalvr) some packages which are used 
> by middle-eastern users (namely - fribidi, hspell, bidiv, and i'm probably 
> forgetting something here..).
> 
> Now, those packages are currently herdless because i'm not sure what 
> strategy should be taken when assigning them to herds.
> There are two options regarding that:
> 
> a) Creating a general i18n herd for all i18n-related packages (the cjk 
> herd could probably be merged into that).
> b) Creating specialized herds for each region/language group - ie. 
> middle-east, cjk, anything else?
> 
> I think option B is better because, for example, i've absolutely no 
> knowledge of CJK, so if someone will ask me something about one of the cjk 
> packages (because he'll see me as a maintainer for the i18n herd) i'll 
> have to redirect him to someone else in the herd == inefficency.
> 
> Your comments are more than welcome.
> 
> - --
> Tal Peer
> Gentoo Developer
> 
> Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x253D2947
> Key Fingerprint: C0B1 D91D 7323 6C0F 227A CBD6 D635 E53D 253D 2947
> 
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> 
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Tal Peer]

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On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Zarick Lau wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry to interrupt !!
> But I'm really have no idea of the meaning of 'herd', can anyone tell me
> anything about 'herd'??
> 

A herd is a basically a group of packages. See 
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/herds/index.xml

PS: please try avoiding sending text/html messages. Some clients are 
unable to parse them properly.

- --
Tal Peer
Gentoo Developer

Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x253D2947
Key Fingerprint: C0B1 D91D 7323 6C0F 227A CBD6 D635 E53D 253D 2947

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Re: [gentoo-dev] i18n herd

[Alastair Tse]

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On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 11:47, Mamoru KOMACHI wrote:
> I think i18n herd is too broad and ambiguous so creating each
> region/language herd would be better. I'm waiting for Bug #9988
> ( http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9988 ) to be solved for
> supporting each language within Portage system. 

I agree with usata about an i18n herd. I think the language support
issues are not universal and specific for each language (or groups of
languages). It is best to keep the herds separate.

But I believe Tal's recommendation is to keep the herds for different
languages separate with an i18n subproject (not herd) that may include
certain NLS/i18n/m17n specific packages that would affect language
support as a whole. For instance we may need to have a coordinated
effort to enable Gentoo-wide UTF-8 support in the future.

In my opinion, this is the best solution at this moment in time.

Cheers,

-- 
Alastair 'liquidx' Tse
 >> Gentoo Developer
 >> http://www.liquidx.net/ | http://dev.gentoo.org/~liquidx/
 >> GPG Key : http://dev.gentoo.org/~liquidx/liquidx_gentoo_org.asc
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