[gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[C. Brewer]

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 I was checking out the latest in the desktop area (I use a wm,and have for
a while, but I like to see what's new and exciting), and the amount of
depends getting listed is mind-boggling. For example, the KDE website says
there is very little (if any) dependencies..but if certain libs are found it
will build support for them..if not, you won't notice. For example-
divx4linux? portmap? fam? win32codecs? A lot of this stuff isn't triggered
by USE flags, either. I remember a ways back, emerging kde meant arts,qt and
the 13 or 15 kde packages..which strangely enough all started with kde*. I
rather suspect its the same in GNOME also, but it appears from a glance to a
much smaller extent. I realize that it's probably to add more function for
the busy or uninitiated, but after reading the previous threads, I too would
like to see things closer to vanilla. I remember the frustrations of doing
KDE from rpm and thinking stuff like "wtf, I don't want mysql or xanim or
xine or OBDC or any of this other crap, I want to see what it looks like
bare-bones style".

I know I'm prolly gonna hear the "if you don't like it, don't build it"
attitude at least once, but I'd just like to check something out without
building 30 pkgs I wont see just to check out the 15 I will.

-- 
Chuck Brewer
Registered Linux User #284015
Get my gpg public key at pgp.mit.edu!! Encrypted e-mail preferred.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[Norberto Bensa]

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C. Brewer wrote:
> I know I'm prolly gonna hear the "if you don't like it, don't build it"
> attitude at least once, but I'd just like to check something out without
> building 30 pkgs I wont see just to check out the 15 I will.

emerge --nodeps package

Regards,
Norberto
-- 
 03:44:41 up 4 days, 10:52,  1 user,  load average: 0.26, 0.14, 0.23

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Re: [gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Monday 29 September 2003 02:32, C. Brewer wrote:
> For example-
> divx4linux? portmap? fam? win32codecs? A lot of this stuff isn't triggered
> by USE flags, either.

you sure about that ?  divx/win32 are pulled in by USE flags ...
`env USE="-*" emerge kde -ep`
there are somethings in there that seem like they could go (mostly the 
multimedia stuff ...) but overall it seems like if you want all the KDE stuff 
then you should expect to pull in a lot (especially with default USE) ...

i would file a bug about:
kdemultimedia (which pulls in xine and a few sound apps explicitly)
kdelibs (which pulls in fam-oss, ghostscript, and libart_lgpl)
imlib (which pulls in gtk w/out a USE flag)

note that imlib falls under GNOME ...
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Monday 29 September 2003 02:45, Norberto Bensa wrote:
> C. Brewer wrote:
> > I know I'm prolly gonna hear the "if you don't like it, don't build it"
> > attitude at least once, but I'd just like to check something out without
> > building 30 pkgs I wont see just to check out the 15 I will.
>
> emerge --nodeps package

this doesnt help if the ebuild assumes a package will be there and thus 
hardcodes a configure option in the ebuild ...
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[C. Brewer]

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I see..a lot of deps pulling in their own deps.. I was pretty much just
going off each desktop's site listings of reqs..the gnome site surely
matches up alot better than kde's..I think I'll give the gnome a
whirl..since they're pretty honest about it taking a while..Thanks Mike!


-- 
Chuck Brewer
Registered Linux User #284015
Get my gpg public key at pgp.mit.edu!! Encrypted e-mail preferred.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[Caleb Tennis]

On Monday 29 September 2003 03:45 am, C. Brewer wrote:
> I see..a lot of deps pulling in their own deps.. I was pretty much just
> going off each desktop's site listings of reqs..the gnome site surely
> matches up alot better than kde's..I think I'll give the gnome a
> whirl..since they're pretty honest about it taking a while..Thanks Mike!

I don't know how Gnome is set up, but all you need for a KDE installation is 
to emerge kde-base/kdebase.  It will pull down arts, kdelibs, and any other 
system lib dependencies you don't already have.  The dependencies in these 
builds are relatively minor.  If you don't already have Qt it will pull that 
in as well (rather large).

I don't see how this can be construed as "too many dependencies".  On my 
P4-2200 this whole process takes about 2 hours.  Before high speed broadband, 
it used to take me that long just to download the source code.

Now, if you start installing all of the other *optional* kde packages (games, 
multimedia, ..) it will increase your installation time 5 fold.

Caleb

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Re: [gentoo-dev] What is happening to the desktops?

[C. Brewer]

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On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:08:02 -0500
Caleb Tennis <caleb@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I don't know how Gnome is set up, but all you need for a KDE installation
> is to emerge kde-base/kdebase.  It will pull down arts, kdelibs, and any
> other system lib dependencies you don't already have.  The dependencies in
> these builds are relatively minor.  If you don't already have Qt it will
> pull that in as well (rather large).
> 
> I don't see how this can be construed as "too many dependencies".  On my 
> P4-2200 this whole process takes about 2 hours.  Before high speed
> broadband, it used to take me that long just to download the source code.
> 
> Now, if you start installing all of the other *optional* kde packages
> (games, multimedia, ..) it will increase your installation time 5 fold.
> 
> Caleb

I suppose optional is open to interpretation..but I was looking here-
http://www.kde.org/download/ and what shows there is what the kde people
consider a full installation, and the only prerequisite is qt, of course.
Mike has already pointed out a couple of problems that could be improved,and
in true vanilla fashion `emerge kde` should pull no more then whats listed
at their site. I applaud your good fortune in having a fast cpu and
connection, whereas my k6-2 500 and 56k connection find this mildly
annoying. I think the fast cpu/fast connection has maybe jaded some devs
because while it costs "relatively minor" time at their end, it increases
5x at the low end. I would be happy to prvide a USE free list of packages to
be emerged if that would help:) This rant was merely aimed at the number of
deps Gentoo calls for vs. the number the vanilla source calls for.


-- 
Chuck Brewer
Registered Linux User #284015
Get my gpg public key at pgp.mit.edu!! Encrypted e-mail preferred.



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