From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7640 invoked by uid 1002); 2 Jul 2003 05:42:17 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 7313 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2003 05:42:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:42:21 -0400 From: Paul To: Paul de Vrieze Cc: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Message-ID: <20030702054221.GR1912@squish.home.loc> References: <87r85fba2o.fsf@killr.ath.cx> <1056840024.14725.62.camel@nosferatu.lan> <200306291512.46271.pauldv@gentoo.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200306291512.46271.pauldv@gentoo.org> Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Public Relations, was: Re: [gentoo-core] proposal: make gentoo-core publicly read-only X-Archives-Salt: 32be79f4-44dd-47e4-91ae-d33370438385 X-Archives-Hash: 4ef40a478eb16b10a0ab3dbc28d499c4 Paul de Vrieze , on Sun Jun 29, 2003 [03:12:45 PM] said: Content-Description: signed data > On Sunday 29 June 2003 00:40, Martin Schlemmer wrote: > > On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 20:35, Cyrik wrote: > > > > I am guessing you consult your children in all decisions you make > > > > regarding them (if you have any)? Or if you are a manager, do you > > > > consult with your workers in decisions you make ? > > > > > > nope but i tell them why i decided like i did and they know of every > > > decision... > > > > Yes, but the point is, they are not present when you talk to > > your partner about what to do, and you surely do not tape it > > so that they can play it back later. > > And you certainly don't involve them into the actual decision on what to buy > them for their Birthday. > > Paul > Hi; Hmm. I find this paternalism vaguely insulting, and I dont even feel strongly one way or another about the -core list. Ever since Ive been reading this list, Ive seen this as a perenial point of contention. I think that this is a touchy issue because some people _do_ feel there is lack of transparancy, and a wall between developers and users. I know this feeling because I have been conditioned to not submit ebuilds anymore, after having submitted them regularly for some time; (I touch upon this in bug 6808) I still hope to continue contributing bugs, preferably with patches. (although I often have better luck just pushing them upstream.) This is ok for me, since writing ebuilds is trivial, and I have my local stuff. But it might not be good for others. (or perhaps it is;) Instead of tortured analogies, just say it the way it is; "we want core closed, and if you dont like it, you are free to choose another distribution, or fork..." Gentoo is a great thing, and this is reflected in its phenomenal growth. I hope that it is able to regroup from its difficulties. I see, however, a disconcerting tendancy to sweep away discontent with rhetoric, and the promise of future bounty... There is a certain amount of FUD associated with Gentoos recent fork, and issues regarding its incorporation, and internal organisation. (Ive seen it on my local LUG list-- people saying 'Ive heard this and that and this; maybe youd better think twice before commiting to Gentoo...') That is to say, these feelings and doubts are very real, and I hope that even though core members find them baseless, that they find a way to communicate that without seeming so condescending. Paul set@pobox.com -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list