[gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Owen Gunden]

(cross posted to gentoo-user & gentoo-dev)

Hi-

Can anyone describe what the gentoo donations go toward?  I would assume
servers, bandwidth, etc., but I would feel more comfortable donating if it
were clearly documented where the money goes.  

As far as I can tell gentoo is a for-profit company; does that mean my
money could just go straight into Gentoo Inc.'s profit margin?  Is there
any way for me to make a donation that I am sure will get back to the
community?

Owen

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Jon Portnoy]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:24:50PM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote:
> (cross posted to gentoo-user & gentoo-dev)
> 

> 
> As far as I can tell gentoo is a for-profit company; does that mean my
> money could just go straight into Gentoo Inc.'s profit margin?  Is there
> any way for me to make a donation that I am sure will get back to the
> community?
> 

Gentoo is going to go non-profit soon.


-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Owen Gunden]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:50:24PM -0400, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> Gentoo is going to go non-profit soon.

Thanks fo' the quick response!  That eases my concerns muchly.  Gentoo
should be sure to publicize this in a big way when it happens, as I'm sure
other people like me will be glad to hear it.

Gentoo rox0rz.
Owen

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 05:50, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:24:50PM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote:
> > (cross posted to gentoo-user & gentoo-dev)
> > 
> 
> > 
> > As far as I can tell gentoo is a for-profit company; does that mean my
> > money could just go straight into Gentoo Inc.'s profit margin?  Is there
> > any way for me to make a donation that I am sure will get back to the
> > community?
> > 
> 
> Gentoo is going to go non-profit soon.

The last time I checked, it is non-profit.

The big problem however (which nobody really do seem to understand,
or want to for that matter), is that because we are small (is this
really a fact anymore?), we do not have dedicated long-term financial
backup (last time I checked anyhow).

Meaning, as long as I have been on the dev team (going/over 2 years
now?), everything that needed doing, was either paid for by Daniel,
or donated by one of the other devs.  Sure, it have changed somewhat
in the last few months, but people like Daniel and Seemant, who
pretty much do this full time, had to scratch to get by.  Also, some
of the other devs that is/was more key figures, that could not do
it full time, could only give so much time to Gentoo.

Gentoo Games was thus formed to (if I have all the facts straight)
in an attempt to get a more steady stream of funds to start and
sponsor key developers for full time development, and then also
when they are settled, to help more devs that actively contributing
to start working full time (you do want Gentoo to grow, etc right?).

It seems that nobody do realise that Gentoo the distribution, is
and will always be non-profit, but that Gentoo Games (or whatever)
will be a means to develop technology outside Gentoo Linux to
help sponsor devs for full time development.  Not to give Daniel
or Seemant enough funds to buy a new house and a few Ferrari's.

The only reason for whining about this, and not wanting to understand
it, is in my opinion "just another zealot for no business with OS"
(Open Source).  Do not understand me wrong, trying to back-stab people,
etc for own personal riches with OS is wrong.  But is it wrong for the
people doing the actual work to want to do it without having to
worry about how they are going to get through this month with something
to eat ?

And just for those that was wondering - no, I have not received a single
sent, hardware or any other forms of compensation for my few
contributions to Gentoo.


Regards,

-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa



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Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Daniel Armyr]

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Does Gentoo do accounting? In that case, some financial statements would put many people at ease, or at least, those of us who can read them.

> It seems that nobody do realise that Gentoo the distribution, is
> and will always be non-profit, but that Gentoo Games (or whatever)
> will be a means to develop technology outside Gentoo Linux to
> help sponsor devs for full time development.  Not to give Daniel
> or Seemant enough funds to buy a new house and a few Ferrari's.


-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
daniel.armyr@home.se	f00-dar@f.kth.se
Tegnergatan 40 rum 505	+46 8 8 31 52 17	
113 59 Stockholm	
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


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Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 18:27, Daniel Armyr wrote:
> Does Gentoo do accounting? In that case, some financial statements
> would put many people at ease, or at least, those of us who can read them.
> 

No offense, but what makes you think you deserve to see it ?  Not even I
make these types of demands.  Do we charge for the binary images, iso's,
whatnot that enables you to use Gentoo ?  Do we sell anything Gentoo
related to the public (not talking coffee mugs, etc, but software) ??

Why is it in a culture of free software, where users "leach" off the
effort and time put into creating what they are using, calls MURDER
first ?

I dare whoever that want to make this an issue and whine, to get a
developer in a field they are interested in, and sponsor his work
for a year.


Anyhow, flame away.

-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa



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Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Daniel Armyr]

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> No offense, but what makes you think you deserve to see it ?  Not even
> I make these types of demands.  Do we charge for the binary images,
> iso's, whatnot that enables you to use Gentoo ?  Do we sell anything
> Gentoo related to the public (not talking coffee mugs, etc, but
> software) ??

I must have misformulated myself. I did not intend to make a demand. I simply drew on my experience of running IRL not-for-profit organisations, and whenever the question of money comes up, we always just point them to last periods stetements. Just like when I have a question about how a program works, I can ask to see the source, if I have a question on how a company runs, I ask to see the financial statements. It is a quick and easy way to see where the profits of a project I contribute to go.
 
> Why is it in a culture of free software, where users "leach" off the
> effort and time put into creating what they are using, calls MURDER
> first ?

I am sorry, but I do what I can. I test, bugreport and submit patches whenever I find something that doesn't work the way I like it. I unfortunately have too much non-linux community work scheduled to take on full-time developing. 

I hope that explains my previous message.

//Daniel Armyr

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
daniel.armyr@home.se	f00-dar@f.kth.se
Tegnergatan 40 rum 505	+46 8 8 31 52 17	
113 59 Stockholm	
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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[gentoo-dev] Gentoo donations/drobbins personal income numbers

[Daniel Robbins]

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On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 06:27:11PM +0200, Daniel Armyr wrote:
> Does Gentoo do accounting? In that case, some financial statements would
> put many people at ease, or at least, those of us who can read them.

Sure. Here is information from Gentoo Technologies, Inc. 941 Employer's
Quarterly Federal Tax Return for the first quarter of 2003:

1. Total wages and tips, plus other compensation			$7778.45

This is my personal gross income (money Gentoo Technologies paid to me) for
January, February and March 2003.  This money comes from an independent
source, not donations. After taxes (net income) I received exactly $6250.00.
According to my "bc" math, this is:

$2083.33 per month

Or, extended throughout the entire year:

2083.33*12
$25,000 per year

This quarterly number is actually slightly low due to some money slated to
become personal income that I kept in the company and redirected towards
LinuxWorld expenses. My annual income tends to be around 35,000 to 40,000
per year. I live in the United States; I have a a 3 year-old daughter and
another expected in four weeks. I have a wife who is a full-time mom by
choice, who is very supportive of what I do but at the same time often
wonders if maybe it would be best for us if I would stop doing Gentoo and
get a "real" job. I will not go into the debt that I (personally, not
Gentoo) have accumulated due to my career choice. If someone wants to know,
just ask, and I will share this personal information as well. I've probably
already shared too much, and I'm not trying to evoke pity or be overly
melodramatic, just clear my name. 

The total income Gentoo received from donations, our advertisements on the
site, and CafePress.com for the first quarter of 2003 amounted to a generous
$4849.78, or an average of $1616.59 per month. This money was used for
LWE-related expenses, hardware, and to assist an unnamed developer who was
having trouble paying basic living expenses (not me.) This money *does* make
a difference, *is* being used legitimately, and is also *greatly*
appreciated.

Sincerely,

-- 
Daniel Robbins
Chief Architect, Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Jon Portnoy]

On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 12:57:02PM +0200, Martin Schlemmer wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 05:50, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:24:50PM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote:
> > > (cross posted to gentoo-user & gentoo-dev)
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > As far as I can tell gentoo is a for-profit company; does that mean my
> > > money could just go straight into Gentoo Inc.'s profit margin?  Is there
> > > any way for me to make a donation that I am sure will get back to the
> > > community?
> > > 
> > 
> > Gentoo is going to go non-profit soon.
> 
> The last time I checked, it is non-profit.
> 

No, Gentoo Technologies is currently registered as a for-profit 
corporation.

(Of course, that doesn't mean it's _profitable_ - that just means that's 
what the legal tax status is)

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 19:35, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 12:57:02PM +0200, Martin Schlemmer wrote:
> > > Gentoo is going to go non-profit soon.
> > 
> > The last time I checked, it is non-profit.
> > 
> 
> No, Gentoo Technologies is currently registered as a for-profit 
> corporation.
> 
> (Of course, that doesn't mean it's _profitable_ - that just means that's 
> what the legal tax status is)

Yes I know.

Maybe it is recent events, but I and you both know the status of things,
and even after many people have contributed, have struggled to get
through some months, people have the untactful/ungrateful presumption
that they can look down on some of us and call a witch hunt.  That
really gets to me - sorda being called down as having dark intentions.

Maybe one of the reasons I rather get in bed and watch a movie after
getting home at 8-11pm these days.


Just me, ignore.

-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa



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Re: [gentoo-dev] donations to what?

[Daniel Robbins]

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On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:24:50PM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote:
> (cross posted to gentoo-user & gentoo-dev)
> 
> Hi-
> 
> Can anyone describe what the gentoo donations go toward?  I would assume
> servers, bandwidth, etc., but I would feel more comfortable donating if it
> were clearly documented where the money goes.  

Generally, the money goes towards hardware purchases for devs, shipping
costs, and show-related expenses, as well as a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.

The donations coming in have picked up in the last couple of months, so we
are starting to be able to do more. In particular, redesigning our
cafepress.com store and expanding our selection of products helped a bunch.

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins
Chief Architect, Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org

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