[gentoo-dev] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[gentoo-dev] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Paul de Vrieze]

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First let me introduce the context of this proposal.

This proposal is a vital step in making herds work. This proposal proposes the 
format of the metadata file. This proposed file is the result of a process in 
which a number of developers where involved. Before implementing metadata 
files, we want some extra input, and I will make sure that this input is 
taken into account in the final format.

I would like the input from all of you on the files. Note that metadata.dtd is 
the most important one, and db.metadata.xml is an example for the sys-lib/db 
package, that shows some of the features of the dtd. The example is not meant 
to be exhaustive, though.




Below I will write out the reasons for certain choices that have been made. I 
have also put in http://cvs.gentoo.org/~pauldv/metadata-2003.05.26.log and 
IRC log of a discussion of 26 May with me, absinthe, drobbins, danarmak and 
others on this topic.

- We need to have herds. For that we need to be able to assign packages to
  herds. While we first thought a MAINTAINER file was enough, through
  discussions we found that there is more information we want to have about a
  package, and that we are probably going to want to add more even later on.
  For this XML was chosen as an implementation format for this file.

  There must be rather strong arguments against it to let go the choice of XML

- We need ways to have people or herds only responsible for only a certain
  versions of an ebuild. For that reason the restrict attribute is in the DTD

- The changelog. This probably will be a topic of debate. Initial
  implementation is not necessary for the herds system to function. The
  current changelog format though has some problems as the confusion about the
  format some months ago showed. With including the changelog into XML many of
  those issues could be resolved. It also would offer possibilities like
  querying user contributions or things like that.

  If it is decided to include the changelog into the metadata.xml file,
  echangelog should be changed accordingly. We further need a conversion tool
  in both directions. That should not be too difficult though.

- Long descriptions. There have been many requests for long descriptions of
  packages, with inclusion of such a tag in the metadata.xml file this can be
  done.

- Internationalisation. The various descriptions have a lang attribute
  allowing translated versions. The format of this attribute should be the
  same as with glibc. One aditional point is that there MUST be a description
  in English or "C" language.

  The rationale behind it is that the costs are small, and we would do many
  people a great favor by allowing this feature.

- packages allways have herds, but may also have maintainers. The reason that
  packages must allways have herds is that maintainers can leave, or have
  other reasons they cannot maintain a package anymore. We however still need
  to have someone responsible for the package. In such a case the
  maintainership falls back on the herd, or herds assigned to the bug.

- Multiple herds per package. There are packages that cross boundaries of
  different categories. An example would for example be a kde p2p client. Such
  an ebuild should follow the kde style guide, but also should fall to people
  who are maintaining similar clients. For that reason the primary herd would
  be p2p and the secondary would be kde. (First one in the file is primary).

Thanks for reading this overly long email. I look forward on reading your 
replies and suggestions, but please do not quote all of my message in the 
reply.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Researcher
Mail: pauldv@cs.kun.nl
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE pkgmetadata SYSTEM "metadata.dtd">
<pkgmetadata>
<herd>sys-libs</herd>
<maintainer restrict=">=sys-libs/db-3.2.9-r5">
  <!-- I'm currently working on making db 4 work with gentoo, but am not
        maintaining general db -->
  <email>pauldv@gentoo.org</email>
  <name>Paul de Vrieze</name>
  <description>Making db4 work with gentoo</description>
</maintainer>

<longdescription>The Berkeley Database (Berkeley DB) is a programmatic toolkit
that provides embedded database support for both traditional and client/server
applications. Berkeley DB includes b+tree, queue, extended linear hashing,
fixed, and variable-length record access methods, transactions, locking,
logging, shared memory caching and database recovery. DB supports C, C++, Java,
and Perl APIs. DB is available for a wide variety of UNIX platforms as well as
Windows NT and Windows '95 (MSVC 4, 5 and 6).</longdescription>
<longdescription lang="nl">De Berkeley Database is een programmatische toolkit
die embedded database support verzorg voor en traditionele en client/server
applicaties. Berkeley DB bevat b+tree, rij, uitgebreide lineaire hashing, vaste
en variabele lengte record toegangsmethoden, transacties, locking, logging,
gedeeld geheugen caching en database herstel. DB ondersteund C, C++, Java en
Perl API's. DB is beschikbaar voor veel UNIX platformen en
Windows.</longdescription>
<changelog>
<change>
  <date>2003/06/07</date>
  <version>3.2.9-r5</version><version>4.0.14</version>
  <version>4.1.24</version><version>4.1.25</version>
  <developer><name>Paul de Vrieze</name><email>pauldv@gentoo.org</email></developer>
  <file>db-3.2.9-r5.ebuild</file>
  <file>db-4.0.14.ebuild</file>
  <file>db-4.1.24.ebuild</file>
  <file>db-4.1.25.ebuild</file>
  <bug>22393</bug>
  <contributor><email>liquidx@gentoo.org</email></contributor>
  <description>
    Fix the autosymlinking script to work in a cross environment.
  </description>
</change>
<change>
  <date>2003/05/30</date>
  <developer><name>Paul de Vrieze</name><email>pauldv@gentoo.org</email></developer>
  <version>4.1.25</version>
  <file>db-4.1.25.ebuild</file>
  <description>
  Add new upstream version db-4.1.25.
  </description>
</change>
<change>
  <date>2003/05/28</date>
  <developer><name>Grant Goodyear</name><email>g2boojum@gentoo.org</email></developer>
  <file>db-4.0.14.ebuild</file>
  <version>4.0.14</version>
  <description>
  Changed goofy "-x86" mask to "~x86" masks, since the package
  is still hard-masked in package.mask.  (This way those of us
  trying to test this package can use package.unmask!)
  </description>
</change>
<!-- omitted other changes as they are not interesting as examples -->
</changelog>



</pkgmetadata>


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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<!ELEMENT pkgmetadata ( (herd|maintainer|longdescription|changelog)* )>
  <!-- One tag for each herd this package is assigned to. -->
  <!ELEMENT herd (PCDATA)>

  <!-- One tag for each maintainer of a package, multiple allowed-->
  <!ELEMENT maintainer ( email, (description, name)* )>

  <!-- A long description of the package in freetext-->
  <!ELEMENT longdescription (PCDATA)>

  <!-- The changelog of the package-->
  <!ELEMENT changelog (change)*>
    <!-- The changelog contains various "changes"-->
    <!ELEMENT change (date,developer,(version|description|file|contributor|bug)*)>
      <!ELEMENT date (PCDATA)>
        <!-- The date of the change, in "YYYY-MM-DD" format -->
      <!ELEMENT contributor (name?,email)>
        <!-- The developer that made the change. The email is required, name
	   is optional-->
      <!ELEMENT version (PCDATA)>
        <!--version of the packages involved (one tag per version)-->
      <!ELEMENT file (PCDATA)><!-- one tag per file touched -->
      <!ELEMENT contributor (name?,email?)>
        <!-- A reference to a user that helped in causing this change. 
          There should at least be a name or email address included. 
          Email is preferred -->
      <!ELEMENT bug (PCDATA)>
        <!-- bug-id of a bug fixed by this change, multiple allowed. The 
          format of this is a number or alias for a bug. NOT including a 
          # character -->
          
<!-- Common attributes -->

<!-- the lang attribute, specifies the language of this tag. This is 
  only useful for descriptions of various kinds. If a tag with this 
  attribute is included there must be a description in the default 
  language "C" or "en", which is equivalent -->
  <!ATTLIST description lang (CDATA) "C">
  <!ATTLIST longdescription lang (CDATA) "C">

<!-- The restrict attribute, this attribute specifies restrictions on 
  the applicability of tags on versions. The format of this attribute is 
  equal to the format of DEPEND lines in ebuilds. There is one special 
  value though: restrict="*". A tag that specifies this only applies if 
  there are no other tags that apply.
  
  For required tags, there must be either an unrestricted version, or a 
  version that is default restricted. -->
  <!ATTLIST herd restrict (CDATA) "">
  <!ATTLIST maintainer restrict (CDATA) "">
  <!ATTLIST longdescription restrict (CDATA) "">



<!-- standard parts -->
<!ELEMENT email (PCDATA)><!-- an email address -->
<!ELEMENT name (PCDATA)><!-- the name of a person (maintainer, contributor)-->
<!ELEMENT description><!-- A description of a maintainer or change-->

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Jon Portnoy]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 10:48:30PM +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
Content-Description: signed data
Content-Description: body text
> 
[snip]
> 
> - The changelog. This probably will be a topic of debate. Initial
>   implementation is not necessary for the herds system to function. The
>   current changelog format though has some problems as the confusion about the
>   format some months ago showed. With including the changelog into XML many of
>   those issues could be resolved. It also would offer possibilities like
>   querying user contributions or things like that.
> 
>   If it is decided to include the changelog into the metadata.xml file,
>   echangelog should be changed accordingly. We further need a conversion tool
>   in both directions. That should not be too difficult though.
> 

I am not in favor of XML changelogs. I enjoy being able to easily read a 
changelog without the help of external tools; I believe it is much more 
convienent to have plaintext changelogs.

--
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Christian Axelsson]

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On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 22:48, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> - Internationalisation. The various descriptions have a lang attribute
>   allowing translated versions. The format of this attribute should be the
>   same as with glibc. One aditional point is that there MUST be a description
>   in English or "C" language.

If the lang is set to anything else to "C" or english in a tag all other
tags that have the lang attribute be translated aswell?
You never know, someday someone might decide to translate all ebuilds to
chinese :P

-- 
Christian Axelsson
smiler@lanil.mine.nu

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Luca Barbato]

Jon Portnoy wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 10:48:30PM +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> Content-Description: signed data
> Content-Description: body text
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>- The changelog. This probably will be a topic of debate. Initial
>>  implementation is not necessary for the herds system to function. The
>>  current changelog format though has some problems as the confusion about the
>>  format some months ago showed. With including the changelog into XML many of
>>  those issues could be resolved. It also would offer possibilities like
>>  querying user contributions or things like that.
>>
>>  If it is decided to include the changelog into the metadata.xml file,
>>  echangelog should be changed accordingly. We further need a conversion tool
>>  in both directions. That should not be too difficult though.
>>
> 
> 
> I am not in favor of XML changelogs. I enjoy being able to easily read a 
> changelog without the help of external tools; I believe it is much more 
> convienent to have plaintext changelogs.
> 
> --
> Jon Portnoy
> avenj/irc.freenode.net
> 

I prefer plaintext changelogs. Maybe we can have both and make repoman 
parse plaintext files during commits and portage convert back from xml 
on request.

-- 
Luca Barbato
Developer
Gentoo Linux				http://www.gentoo.org/~lu_zero




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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Lars Weiler]

* Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> [03/06/27 23:31 +0200]:
>I prefer plaintext changelogs. Maybe we can have both and make repoman 
>parse plaintext files during commits and portage convert back from xml 
>on request.

XML _is_ plain text.  You can edit it quite simple with your
usual text-editor.  Only that XML will give you the
advantage of "naming" texts.  What is done now with a
special kind of formatting (date, name, mail-address, ...)
or indention will be surrounded by XML-tags.

If you prefer text without XML-tags it would be quite easy
writing a script that will translate the ChangeLog into the
"old" way and displaying it.  Gernerating HTML-pages or
anything else is also quite simple.  One of the benefits
using XML!

Regards, Lars

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Jon Portnoy]

On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:17:03AM +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
> * Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> [03/06/27 23:31 +0200]:
> >I prefer plaintext changelogs. Maybe we can have both and make repoman 
> >parse plaintext files during commits and portage convert back from xml 
> >on request.
> 
> XML _is_ plain text.  You can edit it quite simple with your
> usual text-editor.  Only that XML will give you the
> advantage of "naming" texts.  What is done now with a
> special kind of formatting (date, name, mail-address, ...)
> or indention will be surrounded by XML-tags.
> 
> If you prefer text without XML-tags it would be quite easy
> writing a script that will translate the ChangeLog into the
> "old" way and displaying it.  Gernerating HTML-pages or
> anything else is also quite simple.  One of the benefits
> using XML!
> 

XML is plaintext in the sense that a C file is plaintext: you can read 
and write it with a text editor, but that doesn't mean anyone and their 
mother can easily come along and read it.

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Todd Berman]

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On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 20:41, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> XML is plaintext in the sense that a C file is plaintext: you can read 
> and write it with a text editor, but that doesn't mean anyone and their 
> mother can easily come along and read it.
etcat would be able too though, pretty easily.

(sorry for the dbl post to you avenj, im just starting to get used to
this new email client :) ).

--Todd

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Matt Rickard]

> > * Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> [03/06/27 23:31 +0200]:
> > >I prefer plaintext changelogs. Maybe we can have both and make
> > >repoman parse plaintext files during commits and portage convert
> > >back from xml on request.
> > 
snip... 
> XML is plaintext in the sense that a C file is plaintext: you can read
> and write it with a text editor, but that doesn't mean anyone and
> their mother can easily come along and read it.
> 

I agree with this.  I'd hate to see changelogs go to XML.  Plaintext is
nice easy to parse and can be easily read anywhere.  XML would just
needlessly complicate things.

--
Matt Rickard
frogger@gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Jon Portnoy]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 08:45:03PM -0400, Todd Berman wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 20:41, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> > XML is plaintext in the sense that a C file is plaintext: you can read 
> > and write it with a text editor, but that doesn't mean anyone and their 
> > mother can easily come along and read it.
> etcat would be able too though, pretty easily.
> 
> (sorry for the dbl post to you avenj, im just starting to get used to
> this new email client :) ).
> 
> --Todd

Not everyone has gentoolkit installed. I'm also a big fan of 'less'...

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net

--
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Christian Axelsson]

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How about generating a plaintext version of the changelog it on update
or something similar? Cant be to hard (but maybe disk/CPU-consuming).

-- 
Christian Axelsson
smiler@lanil.mine.nu

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Terje Kvernes]

Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:

  [ ... ]

> I prefer plaintext changelogs. Maybe we can have both and make
> repoman parse plaintext files during commits and portage convert
> back from xml on request.

  I'm not a big fan of XML myself, but I don't really see a problem
  with the _source_ of a changelog being kept in XML.  keep XML as a
  data format and produce human readable versions for us humans.

  what _does_ scare me though is the scope of the metadata file.
  "everything" is there.  I'd much rather see several smaller files
  used as sources for the same purpose.  people will screw up the
  metadata-file and some will probably find the editing of it tedious.

  in my experience the single most important thing to do to keep
  anything up-to-date is to make it easy for people to do just that.
  hand-editing a large file in XML format is not exactly easy.

  my immediate though would be something like making the changes
  text-based and kept as single files for each change.  then one would
  use a tool to create the XML file from those change-files, this XML
  file would then be a part of the metadata.

-- 
Terje

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Daniel Robbins]

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On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 10:48:30PM +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> - We need to have herds.

Agree. :)

>   There must be rather strong arguments against it to let go the choice of XML

XML is annoying but it is extensible and gets the job done. Thus I recommend
it.

XML encapsulates data in a structured way. It is not a good language to
encapsulate functional or procedural code. It does not have OOP features.
It is not fun to edit by hand.  For now, this is OK. We can deal with these
limitations.  Because it meets our needs, is easy to validate, and is easy
to integrate into Portage and other code (Web sites, databases, etc.) it is
very strongly recommended for use in our current tree and Portage 2.x.

> - We need ways to have people or herds only responsible for only a certain
>   versions of an ebuild. For that reason the restrict attribute is in the DTD

Agree.

> - The changelog. This probably will be a topic of debate.

Implement herds first. Hold off on ChangeLog stuff until we have excellent
tools to enter/edit ChangeLogs without seeing raw XML.

We need herds today. We don't absolutely need XML ChangeLogs today. Herds
implementation should not be held back on the account of XML ChangeLogs.
They can be added later when the ChangeLog editing tools are polished.

> - Long descriptions.

Agree.

> - Internationalisation.

Agree.

> - packages allways have herds, but may also have maintainers.

Don't care either way. Let's start using herds and we'll find out if we made
the right choice here.

> - Multiple herds per package.

Don't care either way. See above.

> Thanks for reading this overly long email.

Thanks for posting it :)

Once you collect this feedback, please post a suggested herds roll-out plan.
Good work :)

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins
Chief Architect, Gentoo Linux
http://www.gentoo.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Friday 27 June 2003 23:19, Christian Axelsson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 22:48, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > - Internationalisation. The various descriptions have a lang attribute
> >   allowing translated versions. The format of this attribute should be
> > the same as with glibc. One aditional point is that there MUST be a
> > description in English or "C" language.
>
> If the lang is set to anything else to "C" or english in a tag all other
> tags that have the lang attribute be translated aswell?

I think that could indeed be a good requirement.

> You never know, someday someone might decide to translate all ebuilds to
> chinese :P

Well, that would open up a large market for gentoo. We would be able to sell a 
lot of cups because when we enter the Chinese market ;-)

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Researcher
Mail: pauldv@cs.kun.nl
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Saturday 28 June 2003 08:16, Daniel Robbins wrote:
>
> > - The changelog. This probably will be a topic of debate.
>
> Implement herds first. Hold off on ChangeLog stuff until we have excellent
> tools to enter/edit ChangeLogs without seeing raw XML.
>
> We need herds today. We don't absolutely need XML ChangeLogs today. Herds
> implementation should not be held back on the account of XML ChangeLogs.
> They can be added later when the ChangeLog editing tools are polished.
>

To all people discussing xml changelogs. I agree with Daniel on this that the 
changelog and the rest of the file are more or less separate. Also the 
metadata.xml files will be implemented before consensus is reached on xml 
changelogs.

To allow xml changelogs we would first need the conversion tools I talked 
about. But to develop the tools we first need the format. For that the format 
needs to be discussed.

Paul

ps. so, don't worry, xml changelogs will not be pushed through as part of the 
herds reorganisation. I actually don't even want to think about making xml 
changelogs without conversion tools. Converting manually the entries in the 
example file was allready too much work, so full changelogs is undoable.

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Researcher
Mail: pauldv@cs.kun.nl
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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[gentoo-dev] Re: IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Heinrich Wendel]

Paul de Vrieze wrote:

>...

So what about also putting the digest and Manifest into the metadata file?

mfg, Heinrich


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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 02:41, Jon Portnoy wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:17:03AM +0200, Lars Weiler wrote:
> > * Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> [03/06/27 23:31 +0200]:
> > >I prefer plaintext changelogs. Maybe we can have both and make repoman 
> > >parse plaintext files during commits and portage convert back from xml 
> > >on request.
> > 
> > XML _is_ plain text.  You can edit it quite simple with your
> > usual text-editor.  Only that XML will give you the
> > advantage of "naming" texts.  What is done now with a
> > special kind of formatting (date, name, mail-address, ...)
> > or indention will be surrounded by XML-tags.
> > 
> > If you prefer text without XML-tags it would be quite easy
> > writing a script that will translate the ChangeLog into the
> > "old" way and displaying it.  Gernerating HTML-pages or
> > anything else is also quite simple.  One of the benefits
> > using XML!
> > 
> 
> XML is plaintext in the sense that a C file is plaintext: you can read 
> and write it with a text editor, but that doesn't mean anyone and their 
> mother can easily come along and read it.

Ditto.

XML is like the new girl in school ... everybody needs to do her.


-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Saturday 28 June 2003 11:57, Martin Schlemmer wrote:
>
> XML is like the new girl in school ... everybody needs to do her.

If you read the IRC log file you can see some reasons why XML has been chosen. 
I personally also have reservations about XML, but in this case I believe it 
is appropriate.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Researcher
Mail: pauldv@cs.kun.nl
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: The proposal for the metadata.xml file

[Weeve]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:56:05 -0400
Jon Portnoy <avenj@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I am not in favor of XML changelogs. I enjoy being able to easily read a
> 
> changelog without the help of external tools; I believe it is much more 
> convienent to have plaintext changelogs.

Personally I am a fan of plain text approach myself. However, in the event
that XML is the way to go, I would suggest that emerge contain the ability
to show that ChangeLog in plaintext with an argument.

For example, say I wanted to check out the ChangeLog for the gaim instant
messenger program.  I could do something like "emerge --changelog gaim"
and this would just show me the ChangeLog in plain text.

My $0.02

-- 
Weeve
Gentoo/Sparc Team Lead

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