[gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Peter Johanson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2173 bytes --]

hey all,

i've started doing a lot of work on IPv6 stuff in gentoo, to try to get
us up to snuff with regards to IPv6 support. I've been commiting a lot
more ebuilds for various things, and more are to come. BUT, an important
aspect needs fixing. 

init scripts.

The problem is we need better control of configuring both the IPv4 and
the IPv6 attributes of an interface. Specifically, we want IPv6 services
to start if IPv4 networking fails and vice versa.

Along with that, we also need some initscript control over establishing
tunnels, etc. That issue will be better tackled i think after we have a
solid general device configuration in place.

Solutions:
* Seperate net.ethX and net6.ethX scripts.
	Problems: When something fails in current net.ethX script,
	we do 'ifconfig ethX down'. If we do this with co-existing
	v4+v6, we bring down the other form of networking.

	Advantages: Lets us have a "provide net" and "provide net6".
	Other scripts can independantly depend on one or the other, or both,
	or have "need net \ use net6", etc.

	More easily allows for IPv6 only networks if in an IPv6 only
	environment. (example: LAN using 6to4 tools)

* Both IPv6 and IPv4 handled by an enhanced net.ethX script
	
	Problems: If v4 setup fails, does the script fail completely,
	or succeed? It can't succeed, because other things that might need
	v4 will subsequently fail. It can't die, because things that need
	the format that *didn't* fail will not be started, even though
	they could have been.

	Advantages: 
	* Less work to enable a new device. Only have to do 
	"rc-update add net.eth0 default" then configure /etc/conf.d/net

	* Marginally less time spent running scripts

* Other solutions?

I really prefer the first method, as it provides much finer grained
control. I've got a net6.ethX script mostly done, but i wanted to get
some feedback and opinions before fully implementing. The one major
sticking point is how to deal with the current "do something or die and
bring the interface down" situation. This behavior would obviously have
to change.

-pete


-- 
Peter Johanson
<latexer@gentoo.org>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Matt Thrailkill]

Why not make the script back out of everything its done?  I.e., rather than downing the interface, unset any networking things it has set.  Unconfigure the ip, etc.

A super network interface control script would be cool too, something that is kept up to date and understands all of the Linux networking features that may be applicable.  Maybe like a single script that by itself is device agnostic (could configure a normal nic or a bridge interface or some other complex, abstract thing (with ipv4 and ipv6 support)) and figures out what it should do based on a plethora of directives in /etc/conf.d/net.

Like right now, I've got a bridge interface on my Gentoo box, but to run it I made a copy of the init.d script and put a couple bridging commands in there.  It'd be cleaner if I could just inform it about bridging information in /etc/conf.d/net and the init script would understand and do it.

On Sat, 31 May 2003 23:29:27 -0400
Peter Johanson <latexer@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I really prefer the first method, as it provides much finer grained
> control. I've got a net6.ethX script mostly done, but i wanted to get
> some feedback and opinions before fully implementing. The one major
> sticking point is how to deal with the current "do something or die and
> bring the interface down" situation. This behavior would obviously have
> to change.
> 
> -pete
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peter Johanson
> <latexer@gentoo.org>
> 


-- 

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Robin H.Johnson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1609 bytes --]

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:29:27PM -0400, Peter Johanson wrote:
> Solutions:
> * Seperate net.ethX and net6.ethX scripts.
> 	Problems: When something fails in current net.ethX script,
> 	we do 'ifconfig ethX down'. If we do this with co-existing
> 	v4+v6, we bring down the other form of networking.
> 
> 	Advantages: Lets us have a "provide net" and "provide net6".
> 	Other scripts can independantly depend on one or the other, or both,
> 	or have "need net \ use net6", etc.
> 
> 	More easily allows for IPv6 only networks if in an IPv6 only
> 	environment. (example: LAN using 6to4 tools)
I think this would be the better solution in general, but I have one
thing to add with it.
ifconfig should really get deprecated. The 'ip' tool of sys-apps/iproute
has long been noted as mostly superior in functionality (there are some
obscure, obsolete commands in ifconfig that I have never heard of
being used in recent times). 

'ip' also provides a single tool for easily doing things that would take
a few other commands.

One particullar distinction is the seperation of the link and address
layers, which are mostly synonymous in ifconfig.

One other thing to consider in this, is possible integration of
zeroconf (http://www.zeroconf.org/).

On any system, IPv4 network will practially always exist, even if it is
only on the loopback interface.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
E-Mail     : robbat2@orbis-terrarum.net
Home Page  : http://www.orbis-terrarum.net/?l=people.robbat2
ICQ#       : 30269588 or 41961639
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 232 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Seemant Kulleen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 466 bytes --]

there's something which occurs to me -- in /etc/rc.conf there is a way to specify which protocols you allow.  Do our net scripts already have ipv6 support, I wonder? or is that stuff in rc.conf for some other purpose?


-- 
Seemant Kulleen
Developer and Project Co-ordinator,
Gentoo Linux					http://www.gentoo.org/~seemant

Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x3458780E
Key fingerprint = 23A9 7CB5 9BBB 4F8D 549B 6593 EDA2 65D8 3458 780E

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Matt Thrailkill]

I was thinking about that earlier and figured it must not do anything if Peter is working on ipv6 init scripts.

Another subject though... why are only a handful of random things in /etc/rc.conf?  Why not do most all init-script configuration there like under the bsds?  Why have it at all if its just a handful of random settings that could have been parted out to other things in conf.d?

On Sat, 31 May 2003 23:13:11 -0700
Seemant Kulleen <seemant@gentoo.org> wrote:

> there's something which occurs to me -- in /etc/rc.conf there is a way to specify which protocols you allow.  Do our net scripts already have ipv6 support, I wonder? or is that stuff in rc.conf for some other purpose?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Seemant Kulleen
> Developer and Project Co-ordinator,
> Gentoo Linux					http://www.gentoo.org/~seemant
> 
> Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x3458780E
> Key fingerprint = 23A9 7CB5 9BBB 4F8D 549B 6593 EDA2 65D8 3458 780E
> 


-- 

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Peter Johanson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1468 bytes --]

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:13:11PM -0700, Seemant Kulleen wrote:
> there's something which occurs to me -- in /etc/rc.conf there is a way to specify which protocols you allow.  Do our net scripts already have ipv6 support, I wonder? or is that stuff in rc.conf for some other purpose?
> 
I've never seen anything which actually sources rc.conf and uses the
PROTOCOL variable in any way. I have no idea why that's there. anybody
enlighten me?

Our current scripts (in the stable baselayout, not sure about ~arch)
lets you specify inet6_ethX in the /etc/conf.d/net file, and adds that
alias to the device. In reality, there are three different ways to
configure the IPv6 attributes of a device. First, you can configure
everything by hand. Setting an IP, default route, etc. IPv6 also
specificies the existance of autoconfiguration via "Router
Advertisement." This is basically a stateless, automatic "DHCP-like"
configuration. Thirdly, there is specification for a stateful
configuration using DHCPv6.


Our initscript *should* be made to account for all of these
possiblities. Doing this well might get a little messy though.

> 
> -- 
> Seemant Kulleen
> Developer and Project Co-ordinator,
> Gentoo Linux					http://www.gentoo.org/~seemant
> 
> Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x3458780E
> Key fingerprint = 23A9 7CB5 9BBB 4F8D 549B 6593 EDA2 65D8 3458 780E



-- 
Peter Johanson
<latexer@gentoo.org>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Matt Thrailkill]

Hmm... I just looked, and mine says this:
# Set protocols to the protocols that you plan to use.  Gentoo Linux will only
# enable module auto-loading for these protocols, eliminating annoying module
# not found errors.

On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:49:14 -0400
Peter Johanson <latexer@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I've never seen anything which actually sources rc.conf and uses the
> PROTOCOL variable in any way. I have no idea why that's there. anybody
> enlighten me?

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Gontran Zepeda]

% On 2003-06-01 at 12:52:13 -0700, Matt Thrailkill wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:49:14 -0400
> Peter Johanson <latexer@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > I've never seen anything which actually sources rc.conf and uses the
> > PROTOCOL variable in any way. I have no idea why that's there. anybody
> > enlighten me?
>
> # Set protocols to the protocols that you plan to use.  Gentoo Linux will
> # only enable module auto-loading for these protocols, eliminating annoying
> # module not found errors.

IIRC variables from rc.conf are made available in the environment of the
running init.d scripts by /sbin/runscipt.  ${PROTOCOL} _was_ used in the
very early days to determine whether servers like xinetd were to be run
with ipv6 support.  Support for this seems to have been deprecated along
with the system-wide use of daemontools, that good work and the original
ipv6 integration having been done by A. Gottinger.

It would be nicely consistent if you were to use this variable for
determining when to initialize ipv6 interfaces and services in the init
scripts, IMHO.

-- 
Gontran

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Martin Schlemmer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1558 bytes --]


> > there's something which occurs to me -- in /etc/rc.conf there is a way to specify which protocols you allow.  Do our net scripts already have ipv6 support, I wonder? or is that stuff in rc.conf for some other purpose?
> > 
> I've never seen anything which actually sources rc.conf and uses the
> PROTOCOL variable in any way. I have no idea why that's there. anybody
> enlighten me?
> 

Right.  It got missing/never implemented somewhere.


The point is that things are inefficient in current state.  There
has been a lot of talk, and a lot of ideas in the past, but nobody
ever came through.

I can do the logic, but I am not a network guru, or have the
hardware/resources to add support for every kind of network option
out there.  And besides ... what happened to clear cut so that
the user could hack in whatever he wanted with ease ... but I
guess we are too far down this road to look back now 8)

Anyhow, an idea that has been floating around, is to still have
only a net.<device>, but protocols/routing/whatever is supported
via modules.  Meaning, if you want only ipv4, you just say in the
config that net.eth0 should support ipv4.  Same with dhcp/ipv6/whatever.

The problem is however, we need a clearcut design, need to decide how
to handle failures, etc - rewriting it every 6 months should not
be an option, so we should get the design right from day one.

Anyhow, just me rambling.


Regards,

-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop/System Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa



[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] IPv6 support in network initscripts

[Dan Armak]

[-- Attachment #1: signed data --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1103 bytes --]

On Sunday 01 June 2003 06:29, Peter Johanson wrote:
> hey all,
>
> i've started doing a lot of work on IPv6 stuff in gentoo, to try to get
> us up to snuff with regards to IPv6 support. I've been commiting a lot
> more ebuilds for various things, and more are to come. BUT, an important
> aspect needs fixing.
>
> init scripts.
>
> The problem is we need better control of configuring both the IPv4 and
> the IPv6 attributes of an interface. Specifically, we want IPv6 services
> to start if IPv4 networking fails and vice versa.
>
> Along with that, we also need some initscript control over establishing
> tunnels, etc. That issue will be better tackled i think after we have a
> solid general device configuration in place.

I hope what you mean by that is also nice initscripts for pptp and pppoe. Even 
if they basically just let you specify the command line from conf.d, it's 
still something. I've been wondering why we don't have them...

-- 
Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux developer (KDE)
Matan, Israel
Public GPG key: http://cvs.gentoo.org/~danarmak/danarmak-gpg-public.key

[-- Attachment #2: signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]