From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31475 invoked by uid 1002); 29 Apr 2003 06:24:58 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 24248 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2003 06:24:58 -0000 From: Mike Lundy To: Aron Griffis Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 02:24:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <20030429001443.GA413@time> <20030429011644.GB18711@lucien.dreaming> <20030429033239.GB413@time> In-Reply-To: <20030429033239.GB413@time> Cc: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org X-Pants: On MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Boundary-02=_1qhr+EYyKvvgbWw"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200304290224.53881.novas007@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new local USE var: vim-with-x X-Archives-Salt: 772dd674-07ca-464b-bb6c-7147b5548e86 X-Archives-Hash: 889e14daa1076cfd19132c2efc0929fd --Boundary-02=_1qhr+EYyKvvgbWw Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: signed data Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 28 April 2003 23:32, Aron Griffis wrote: > Unfortunately I think you are wrong. Most users that I have > encountered do not expect "emerge vim" to pull in xfree, even when > USE=3DX. This is a very frequently asked question on IRC and in the > mailing lists. This means they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the use flags. If=20 they tell vim they want X, it builds with X support. Why would someone=20 have X in their use flags if they didn't want X support? > confused a lot of users who did not expect their first action of > "emerge vim" to also demand xfree. Adding warnings is not really > sufficient since the damage has been done when they hit enter; > portage will start with the first dependency in the list, not with > the vim ebuild itself. This means that they don't understand use flags AND they don't use=20 =2D-pretend first. Flying blind... > 3. Next, I changed vim to refrain from linking against X altogether, > on the assumption that the gvim ebuild would bu sufficient for users > wanting an X-linked ebuild. Ick. See below. > 4. Finally, I made the behavior dependent on a local USE var, trying > to capture the expectations of the typical user, while providing an > escape route for those particular users who want a vim linked against > the X libraries. Keep in mind this is not a gui version of vim (that > is provided by the gvim ebuild), it's just the particular bits that > allow X interaction while in a terminal. For example, xterm title > setting, X clipboard support for vim selections, and moving the > cursor using the mouse. I have seen very few users that demand those > particular features from vim, so it doesn't make sense to me to give > the vim ebuild such a heavy dependency. Count one vote for me. I don't use gvim at all, but I do enjoy vim's=20 connection to X. I think one reason many people don't ask for it is=20 they assume it- no proof of this, of course, but the X interaction is=20 not a big thing, just a lot of little things that are quite handy- it's=20 quite possible they get overlooked. > Thanks for your suggestions. If you can convince me there's a better > way than what I've done, I'll gladly consider making the change in > the ebuild. :-) Now that I've successfully managed to come off as elitist, let me=20 attempt to defend myself :) Use flags seem to me a most obvious thing.=20 USE=3D"X" means use X. If a package with optional X support does not use=20 X when I've told it to via the X use flag, I'd consider that a bug.=20 There's no reason to add additional use flags for something that seems=20 to stem from a misunderstanding of the distro one is using. You can=20 only hold someone's hand for so long - it's better to educate the=20 misguided user than make the use flag system inconsistent. =2D-=20 To smash a single atom, all mankind was intent. Now any day the atom may return the compliment. --Boundary-02=_1qhr+EYyKvvgbWw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+rhq1/tNA0+e85ksRAqCoAJ9tcmsmwtkMXjBPcAvLbNiHby+0nACfdTps Gq19p6fv1MrHiZ/MgF8Eq5M= =7mKK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_1qhr+EYyKvvgbWw--