From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-14) on finch.gentoo.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DMARC_MISSING, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 Received: from athena.rearviewmirror.org (sense-sea-CovadSub-0-150.oz.net [216.39.147.150]) by chiba.3jane.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5000AC6D0 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from matt by athena.rearviewmirror.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1845Hv-0006Th-00; Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:06:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:06:03 -0700 To: Tom Syroid Cc: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: When is Gentoo 1.4 going to be released? Message-ID: <20021022200603.GA24837@rearviewmirror.org> References: <20021021203305.GE20577@freedom.gentoo.org> <006e01c279df$bee790b0$8204dca7@northamerica.corp.microsoft.com> <3DB5A6D8.2070108@fastwebnet.it> <3DB59715.455ADC02@yahoo.com> <20021022191549.GA24779@rearviewmirror.org> <15980000.1035315815@phaedrus.syroidmanor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <15980000.1035315815@phaedrus.syroidmanor.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i From: Matt Beland Sender: gentoo-dev-admin@gentoo.org Errors-To: gentoo-dev-admin@gentoo.org X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Gentoo Linux developer list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Archives-Salt: c19f5a81-c279-4253-8c7b-7c2fb77c0c3a X-Archives-Hash: 961a53c10f76f766001a212ba1944d41 On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 01:43:35PM -0600, Tom Syroid wrote: > I know you well enough that I can safely say you're not about to go off > using a new version of something on any kind of critcal box without testing > it first. So on the assumption that you have already discerned > program/tool/system utility is "ready for prime time", what's wrong with > simply edited the "frozen" entry in package.mask and installing it? There's nothing wrong with doing that, for myself, other than the annoying need to push out modified package.mask files to my systems after an 'emerge rsync'. (Well, and the security policy here at work doesn't allow for "unsupported" external packages, which our security team considers masked packages to be - but what they don't know won't hurt 'em.) But there are a couple of other problems. First and foremost, not every package held up by the freeze is in the portage tree and masked; I know of at least a few others that I use which are currently "out of date" because of the freeze. Sure, I could make ebuilds on my own - I have, in a couple of cases. Second, for me it's no big deal to edit the package.mask file or create custom ebuilds. Is that true of everybody? Is it even true of the majority, considering the general user population? I know from observing my local LUG that people start complaining when RedHat RPMs aren't immediately available for the latest cool software release - is the Gentoo community that much more forgiving? Finally, this doesn't answer my real question - why don't we know the answer to the question "how are the preparations for the release of 1.4 going?" Why are we not getting any communication from the development team? For that matter, why is there an ebuild freeze at all? If the portage tree weren't frozen, would we even care how long it took to release 1.4? > While I concur that the Gentoo development team as a whole could do a > better job of communicating TODO's and loose timelines to the community, I > don't see how a frozen Portage tree is preventing you from utilizing the > distribution in any way you heart desires. It's an inconvenience, not a barrier. My point was that we're not complaining about not getting "something free" on the schedule we demand. I don't need to use Gentoo at all; I could use FreeBSD, or stick with Debian or RedHat or any of a dozen other distributions, or go with a complete Linux-From-Scratch system. Gentoo is a convenience, a useful method of eliminating some of the work while still getting a system which does what I want. If the development team doesn't communicate TODOs and timelines and expectations, if they don't make use of their user community to help make the distribution better, the utility and convenience of using Gentoo is decreased as a result. Which is the real problem here - without the rapid updates and community-contributed ebuilds, Gentoo is not as useful as a distribution. -- Matt Beland matt@rearviewmirror.org http://www.rearviewmirror.org