From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-14) on finch.gentoo.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=DMARC_NONE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 Received: from orange-pc.ces.clemson.edu (orange-pc.ces.clemson.edu [130.127.222.105]) by chiba.3jane.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C974FABAF0 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:28:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from orange-pc.ces.clemson.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orange-pc.ces.clemson.edu (8.12.5/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g7QJSvxi015867; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:28:57 -0400 Received: (from grant@localhost) by orange-pc.ces.clemson.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g7QJSvJ6015866; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:28:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:28:57 -0400 From: Grant Goodyear To: Jeremiah Mahler , gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] State of Developement Message-ID: <20020826192857.GA15770@orange-pc.ces.clemson.edu> Reply-To: goodyea@clemson.edu References: <20020826064346.GX5078@squish.home.loc> <200208260652.26822.prez@gentoo.org> <20020826180102.GA7111@jackpot.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020826180102.GA7111@jackpot.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: gentoo-dev-admin@gentoo.org Errors-To: gentoo-dev-admin@gentoo.org X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Gentoo Linux developer list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Archives-Salt: 9f1ebe4a-9b94-4ef5-bd80-36525fecad7a X-Archives-Hash: 31137195eefea072522285f265c8e55c > And they have to go through a specific set of privileged people. True, although to the best of my knowledge all distributions have a similar system. I don't think it will ever make sense to provide CVS write access to all users; it's simply too easy to mess things up. Goodness knows that our developers regularly manage to render Gentoo uninstallable, and they're trying very hard not to do that. Our system isn't perfect, but I'm not sure what would be better. > Q: Can I help, can I help > A: Sure, you can take out the trash and scrub the toilets. Well, right now that's pretty much what the developers are doing, too. Our biggest need for help right now is good bug reports and help with existing bugs. The only major "development" that is ocurring right now is portage and some people starting to work on a sensible installer. Everything else is really bug fixing of one sort or another. > > > I havent checked, but is gentoo-core still closed? > > yes, it is. > > > Ivory tower? The original rationale for closing gentoo-core was that it allowed developers a chance to propose wacky ideas (and get shot down) with minimal embarrassment (and without generating a flood of "hey, some dev wants to do _this_!) posts on the mailing lists and forums. I don't particularly have an objection to gentoo-core being made read-only. I certainly think it would be an improvement from a PR standpoint. At the same time, I could also see how making the list truly public might cut down on the number of "hey, some unnamed devs have been doing _this_, and it really has to stop!" messages that need to be sent but might not be if everybody gets to read our "dirty laundry", so to speak (and mix metaphors). > As a user of Gentoo, I feel like a child whose parent has to double > check everything I do. And in the same way that the child > becomes frustrated with their parent because they place no trust > in the child, I am frustrated with Gentoo because it places no > trust in the users. That's an interesting argument, because I would still argue that other than Linux From Scratch, Gentoo provides users with more flexibility than does any other distribution. If you want to play with a masked ebuild, unmask it. If you want an ebuild that has been languishing on bugzilla for a while, download it and emerge it (or write it, if that's necessary). If you want to be a developer, start fixing bugs on bugzilla and make your good work known. If nobody gets around to inviting you to be a developer, e-mail me and tell me what you've been doing, and I'll look into it and get back to you. I'm pretty sure that nobody is actually trying to be rude, but we all are quite definitely overworked. > Among all the distributions I am familiar with, Gentoo is, > in my opinion, the best as far as placing trust in it's users. > But Gentoo is also, in my opinion, far from what I imagine as ideal. Fair enough. If you have additional ideas on how we can trust our users better, please do post on bugzilla. -g2boojum- -- Grant Goodyear The Secrets of Physics: Dept. of Chemistry 1. Add zero. Clemson University 2. Multiply by one. Clemson, SC 29617 3. Expand in a Taylor series e-mail: grant@grantgoodyear.org 4. Integrate by parts. http://www.grantgoodyear.org 5. Fourier transform.