From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-14) on finch.gentoo.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DMARC_MISSING, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RDNS_DYNAMIC autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 Received: from greylight.firinn.org (12-239-52-172.client.attbi.com [12.239.52.172]) by chiba.3jane.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D8E8ABD80 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:19:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 16111 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jun 2002 01:19:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:19:40 -0500 From: Mark Bainter To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Installer (2) [LARGE] Message-ID: <20020603201939.C12130@firinn.org> References: <1022992388.8152@corvus.com.ve> <87adqd5jhk.fsf@gentoo.shacknet.nu> <20020602220518.A12130@firinn.org> <200206022238.49238.jlambert@eml.cc> <874rglkmpj.fsf@gentoo.shacknet.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <874rglkmpj.fsf@gentoo.shacknet.nu>; from mkennedy@gentoo.org on Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 11:31:04PM -0500 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.19-pre8 on a i586 X-PGP-Fingerprint: CF87 F5AA 26AB 9FA2 BBF3 90D0 0DD1 D14C B2DF AD43 Sender: gentoo-dev-admin@gentoo.org Errors-To: gentoo-dev-admin@gentoo.org X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Gentoo Linux developer list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Archives-Salt: deef537a-637a-4df4-94d8-d38fad44a123 X-Archives-Hash: e73d09e4cbbe485289def923f7545c82 Matthew Kennedy [mkennedy@gentoo.org] wrote: > Justin Lambert writes: > > > back. It saves me a ton of time downloading things. This would be the kind > > of things I (personally) would miss with an all in wonder installer. > > Aren't you all missing the point? *Both* the plain shell-based > installer and the GUI would be available. A noble goal. Unfortunately, reality doesn't work that way. I see three potential outcomes to a project like this, based on the presupposition that an installer cannot possibly be as flexible as the manual method we currently use. I think it's a valid one, but I'm happy to argue it if someone disputes this claim. A) Because of the difficulties of getting the installer to play nice, the flexibility of the current system is comprimised to make things easier for installer development. This one isn't very likely with gentoo, but it could happen. B) The installer is made to work within what we currently have. Users start to use it, and we get greener and greener people trying it. Some of these people know enough to be dangerous (a common trait) and go out of the installer long enough to change something. The installer cannot possibly account for all possible changes to itself so it wigs out. This happens more often as time passes, causing frequent complaints to the list about "buggy" installer software. Eventually, to avoid this, most of the manual stuff is removed to protect the developers from the hordes of 20-watt bulbs who now have infested the list. C) The installer handles most of the situations, but has become so huge in the attempt that either it or the manual methods must go. So no, I'm not missing the point. I'm just looking forward far enough, and looking at other projects where this kind of thing has happened or nearly so, and sounding the warning now, rather than later. -- "If you've never walked into a parking meter, you're wasting valuable reading time." --Eloise Beltz-Deck