[gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[al3x payne]

To whom it may concern:

I'm really concerned about the number of ebuilds that are rapidly
becoming out of date.  I started using Gentoo, in part, because of the
currency of its packages and the ease of updates.  While I understand
that users can submit upgrade requests via bugs.gentoo.org, few package
maintainers seem to be responding to these.  I'm sure I'm not alone in
worrying that Gentoo packages will go the way of Debian: "dedicated"
package maintainers that update once in a blue moon.  Gentoo has, I
would say, an even more elegant system than apt-get; please don't let it
go to waste on antiquated ebuilds.

So this doesn't happen, was can we users do, proactively, to help
developers?  Clearly filing "please update" bugs isn't enough.  I don't
want to just complain; I want to help.  What can we do?  Thanks for your
time and hard work!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
al3x payne
e: al3x@al3x.net
w: http://www.al3x.net
p: 202.841.4706
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Matthew Kennedy]

Personally, I find it helpful if a user sends in a patch or updated
ebuild (preferably a patch though) for the latest version, rather than
just a "this is out-dated" message in bugzilla.

I the simplest case, all that's required is a version bump. In the more
complex case, this will show corrections/hints to get around breakage
from the updated version.

Matt

On Sun, 2002-04-21 at 18:51, al3x payne wrote:
> So this doesn't happen, was can we users do, proactively, to help
> developers?  Clearly filing "please update" bugs isn't enough.  I don't
> want to just complain; I want to help.  What can we do?  Thanks for your
> time and hard work!

-- 
Matthew Kennedy
Gentoo Linux Developer

RE: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Todd Wright]

Matthew Kennedy wrote:
> Personally, I find it helpful if a user sends in a patch or updated
> ebuild (preferably a patch though) for the latest version, rather than
> just a "this is out-dated" message in bugzilla.

Ive sent in a couple of updated ebuilds. So far Ive been sending the complete thing. If a patch is preferred I can switch to sending patches, but as you said, its personal preference of the developer handling the 'bug'. Given that the bugs are assigned to different developers I have no way of knowing if the developer who gets my bug prefers diffs or complete new updated ebuild files.

Is there a consensus on what format is prefered by most developers?

In addition, I have always marked my updated ebuilds with a comment stating that I updated it, with my email address and the new revision (-rx) that I updated. (in the header, below the Author/Maintainer line). Is this correct, or should I not include that ? 

Ive stumbled on a couple of ebuilds that need revising, not due to later versions of the software, but rather due to compile / install bugs or 'gotchya's etc. Im quite happy to submit them when I fix them. I also have a few more new package ebuilds in the works.

-- _--_|\ --------- Todd Wright -- wylie@geekasylum.org --------
  /      \                  
  \_.--._* <---    http://www.dreams.darker.net/~wylie/
        v       Mobile: +61-403-796-001    Ph: +61-2-9521-8677
----------------------------------------------------------------

RE: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Matthew Kennedy]

On Mon, 2002-04-22 at 07:13, Todd Wright wrote:
> Ive sent in a couple of updated ebuilds. So far Ive been sending the 
complete thing. If a patch is preferred I can switch to sending patches, 
but as you said, its personal preference of the developer handling the 
'bug'. Given that the bugs are assigned to different developers I have 
no way of knowing if the developer who gets my bug prefers diffs or 
complete new updated ebuild files.

I would think a developer finds the difference between the updated
ebuild and the current version almost immediately. That's what a patch
is.

True, though. Who knows what others do.

-- 
Matthew Kennedy
Gentoo Linux Developer

Re: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Alexander Gretencord]

On Monday 22 April 2002 14:13, Todd Wright wrote:
> I also have
> a few more new package ebuilds in the works.

This is my problem too. I switched all my machines to gentoo so I made ebuilds 
for everything that I use which is not already included in gentoo. Obviously 
noone seems to care about them tho. Somehow my 'mm' ebuild got noticed by 
woodchip and he included it but all the other ebuilds are still sitting there 
in bugzilla without anybody seeming to notice.


Alex

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

Re: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Ryan Phillips]

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On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:47:15 +0200
"Alexander Gretencord" <arutha@gmx.de> wrote:

> On Monday 22 April 2002 14:13, Todd Wright wrote:
> > I also have
> > a few more new package ebuilds in the works.
> 
> This is my problem too. I switched all my machines to gentoo so I made ebuilds 
> for everything that I use which is not already included in gentoo. Obviously 
> noone seems to care about them tho. Somehow my 'mm' ebuild got noticed by 
> woodchip and he included it but all the other ebuilds are still sitting there 
> in bugzilla without anybody seeming to notice.
> 

I'll be getting to some of the ebuilds in bugzilla today.  

Ryan
<rphillips at gentoo.org>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[George Shapovalov]

Couldn't be silent in the light of such plead :).

On Sunday 21 April 2002 16:51, al3x payne wrote:
> To whom it may concern:
>
> I'm really concerned about the number of ebuilds that are rapidly
> becoming out of date.  I started using Gentoo, in part, because of the
I bet you started with gentoo in the pre-1.0 era ;).

It is true that generally ebuilds are not getting much attention lately, as 
developers are hardly finding time to address bugs and other important issues 
(now that gentoo user base significantly expanded in a very short time). 
However ther is a hope :). We are currently looking at the ways to delegate 
part of the work on ebuild testing and updates to users (the trick is to do 
it preserving security and integrity of distribution). If you are interested 
you can take a look at:
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~georges/gentoo/epsp/proposal.html
for one of the solutions proposed (comments and suggestions are appreciated!).

You can also look through gentoo-dev archives (last few days), threads:
"Improving stability - checkpoints" and some other related stuff for more 
discussion (even if not directly addressing this but related).

However you should understand that resolving this situation will require quite 
dramatic rewamp of portage and thus will take some time (with security and 
stability addressed first!).

And, BTW the point made by Matthew Kennedy is an absolutely valid one! You 
will save developers time by providing them with patches where you can in 
addition to bug reports.

George

Re: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Richard Jackson]

On Sunday 21 April 2002 10:32 pm, George Shapovalov wrote:
> Couldn't be silent in the light of such plead :).
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2002 16:51, al3x payne wrote:
> > To whom it may concern:
> >
> > I'm really concerned about the number of ebuilds that are rapidly
> > becoming out of date.  I started using Gentoo, in part, because of the
>
> I bet you started with gentoo in the pre-1.0 era ;).
>
<snip buch of stuff>
>
> And, BTW the point made by Matthew Kennedy is an absolutely valid one! You
> will save developers time by providing them with patches where you can in
> addition to bug reports.
>
> George

I'm more than happy to help on updating older ebuilds. The problem I'm having 
is I can't seem to find them in bugzilla. So could some one point me in the 
right direction in a couple of things:
1) Some docs on using bugzilla from the users perspective not the implementors 
perspective.
2) How it is setup for gentoo. What is related to what so I can find what I 
want. 

I've tried searching for reported bugs but all I have been able to find is 
just a list of bug numbers and who it is assigned to but that does not really 
indicate what is being worked on and what is not. The only way I can find a 
description of a bug is to individulay read each bug. There has to be a 
better way to do this. 

Any ways once I figure bugzilla out I fully intend to start working on any 
ebuild issues I find. Both enhancements new packages and update types. 

Another question why doesn't bugzilla inform you when someone leaves a comment 
about a bug you filed? I filed a bug and I looked at it yesterday and found 
that someone had sugested a solution to the problem but I was not aware of it 
until I looked. I thought bugzilla would have sent me a email indicating the 
new comment so I don't have to go and check on it every day. 

Richard

Re: [gentoo-dev] !!!Really worried about ebuild updates!

[Ryan Phillips]

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* Richard Jackson <richardj@1gig.net> [2002-04-21 23:30]:
> On Sunday 21 April 2002 10:32 pm, George Shapovalov wrote:
> > Couldn't be silent in the light of such plead :).
> >
> > 
*snip*
> > And, BTW the point made by Matthew Kennedy is an absolutely valid one! You
> > will save developers time by providing them with patches where you can in
> > addition to bug reports.
> >
> > George
> 
> 
> Any ways once I figure bugzilla out I fully intend to start working on any 
> ebuild issues I find. Both enhancements new packages and update types. 
> 
> Another question why doesn't bugzilla inform you when someone leaves a comment 
> about a bug you filed? I filed a bug and I looked at it yesterday and found 
> that someone had sugested a solution to the problem but I was not aware of it 
> until I looked. I thought bugzilla would have sent me a email indicating the 
> new comment so I don't have to go and check on it every day. 
> 
> Richard

Richard,
    It appears you have an account on bugzilla.  Double check your preferences, by
    logging in and clicks Prefs.  There is an email tab that lets you turn
    on and off email update notices.  If you have a valid email address setup
    then you should be getting notices of changes made to your bugs.

Best regards,
Ryan Phillips

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