[gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Jerry A!]

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Everyone, please give massive props out to Grant Goodyear for getting
nail into the tree and Jeffrey Bester for giving me a base mailx port to
work with.

I updated Jeffrey's work (but he should still get the credit for getting
the ball rolling on mailx) to 8.1.1.

Found out that Debian sorta supports this now (8.1.1 is actually
NetBSD's /usr/bin/mail, the upcoming 8.1.2 is OpenBSD's).

So, it works as expected.  It also requires liblockfile to be installed.
I went ahead and created a portage for that.

However, I do differ in opinion from Grant.  I would prefer that
anything that is /usr/bin/mail works as expected, and that in the
Greater UNIX Picture sorta means using /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail.  I
think it's a bad thing to create some changes that go against user
expectations.

So, mailx has "RDEPEND=virtual/mta".  It needs it, so that's not
negotiable.  However, I would like our packages to be consistent.  Thus,
if there are no objections, I would also like nail to
"RDEPEND=virtual/mta".

But before I go off making any changes, I'd like opinions.  So please
tell us what you want.

Without further ado, I'm attaching the ebuilds for liblockfile and mailx
to this message.  If I don't hear any complaints, I'll commit them when
I get home from work.

Toodles.  8)

        --Jerry

name:  Jerry Alexandratos         ||  Open-Source software isn't a
phone: 703.599.6023               ||  matter of life or death...
email: jerry@thehutt.org          ||  ...It's much more important
                                  ||  than that!

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# Copyright 1999-2001 Gentoo Technologies, Inc.
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License, v2 or later
# Jerry A! <jerry@gentoo.org>
# /home/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/skel.build,v 1.3 2001/07/05 02:43:36 drobbins Exp

P=liblockfile_1.03
A="${P}.tar.gz"
S=${WORKDIR}/liblockfile-1.03

DESCRIPTION="NFS-safe locking library"

SRC_URI="ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libl/liblockfile/${A}"
HOMEPAGE="http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/liblockfile1.html"

DEPEND="virtual/glibc"


src_compile() {
    cd ${S}
    try ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-shared
    try emake
}

src_install() {
    cd ${S}
    cp liblockfile.so liblockfile.so.1
    dobin dotlockfile
    dolib.so liblockfile.so.1
    doman dotlockfile.1 lockfile_create.3 maillock.3

    cd ${D}/usr/lib
    ln -sf liblockfile.so.1 liblockfile.so
}

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# Copyright 1999-2001 Gentoo Technologies, Inc.
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License, v2 or later
# Jeffrey Bester <jbester@mailops.com>
# /home/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/skel.build,v 1.3 2001/07/05 02:43:36 drobbins Exp

P=mailx_8.1.1
A="${P}.orig.tar.gz ${P}-11.diff.gz"
S=${WORKDIR}/mailx-8.1.1.orig

DESCRIPTION="Standard unix mailer"

SRC_URI="ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mailx/${P}.orig.tar.gz
        ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mailx/${P}-11.diff.gz"
HOMEPAGE="http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/mailx.html"

DEPEND="virtual/glibc
       >=sys-apps/gzip-1.2.4a"

RDEPEND="virtual/mta"


src_unpack() {
    cd ${WORKDIR}
    unpack ${P}.orig.tar.gz
    cd ${S}
    gunzip -c ${DISTDIR}/${P}-11.diff.gz > ${P}-11.diff
    patch -p1 < ${P}-11.diff

    mv Makefile Makefile.orig
    sed -e "s:CFLAGS=-g:CFLAGS=${CFLAGS}:g" \
        -e "s:/usr/man:/usr/share:g" \
        -e "s:/usr/lib:/usr/share/mailx:g" Makefile.orig > Makefile
}

src_compile() {
    try emake
}

src_install () {
    dodir /bin
    dodir /etc
    dodir /usr/bin
    dodir /usr/share/mailx
    dodir /usr/share/man{1,8}

    try make DESTDIR=${D} install

    dosym /usr/bin/mailx /bin/mail

    cd ${D}/usr/bin
    ln -sf mailx Mail
}

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Thomas M. Beaudry]

>However, I do differ in opinion from Grant.  I would prefer that
>anything that is /usr/bin/mail works as expected, and that in the
>Greater UNIX Picture sorta means using /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail.  I
>think it's a bad thing to create some changes that go against user
>expectations.
>
I disagree for two reasons:

1.  It's causing unneeded software to be installed.  Wasted disc space, 
something else to break, another means to be rooted, etc...

2.  'Go against user expectations' is rarely a valid argument.  It 
should only be used as a tie breaker when all other things are equal. 
 Otherwise, improvements, innovations, etc. get stifled because there 
can be no major changes.  If you want to help the user expecting to see 
sendmail, install a dummy configuration file for it that informs him 
that nail provides the functionality.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Grant Goodyear]

> However, I do differ in opinion from Grant.  I would prefer that
> anything that is /usr/bin/mail works as expected, and that in the
> Greater UNIX Picture sorta means using /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail.  I
> think it's a bad thing to create some changes that go against user
> expectations.

Since nail does not need an mta, I don't think we should require
it, thereby leaving that decision up to the user.  

It may be that we don't want to install a /usr/bin/mail clone
by default, if that would also require us to install either
sendmail or postfix at the same time.  Perhaps we need a 
"standardUnixMailer.ebuild" that just has mailx and sendmail
as depends, and does nothing else?

-Grant-
-- 
___________________________________________________________________
|     Grant Goodyear                  |  The Secrets of Physics:   |
|     Dept. of Chemistry - UH         |1. Add zero.                |
|     Houston, TX  77204              |2. Multiply by one.         |
|-------------------------------------|3. Expand in a Taylor series|
|e-mail: goodyear@uh.edu              |4. Integrate by parts.      |
|www:bernacchi.chem.uh.edu/~grant     |5. Fourier transform.       |
|                                     |6. Add auxiliary variables  |
|_____________________________________|____________________________|
 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Jerry A!]

On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 04:21:43PM -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
: > However, I do differ in opinion from Grant.  I would prefer that
: > anything that is /usr/bin/mail works as expected, and that in the
: > Greater UNIX Picture sorta means using /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail.  I
: > think it's a bad thing to create some changes that go against user
: > expectations.
: 
: Since nail does not need an mta, I don't think we should require
: it, thereby leaving that decision up to the user.  
: 
: It may be that we don't want to install a /usr/bin/mail clone
: by default, if that would also require us to install either
: sendmail or postfix at the same time.  Perhaps we need a 
: "standardUnixMailer.ebuild" that just has mailx and sendmail
: as depends, and does nothing else?

However, we do install ssmtp by default.  This is a lightweight (it only
relays to a hub) /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail clone.

It's so small I bet you didn't even notice it on your system.  8)

But like I said, for a default install (remember, you too can create
your own profiles) I think it's wise to not alienate people trying out
Gentoo by not having "standard" tools.  Now, I'm not saying out
/usr/bin/mail and /usr/sbin/sendmail need to be mailx and sendmail
proper (in fact I think nail and ssmtp make excellent replacements).
But I do think that something should be there to meet today's baseline
expectations.

        --Jerry

name:  Jerry Alexandratos         ||  Open-Source software isn't a
phone: 703.599.6023               ||  matter of life or death...
email: jerry@thehutt.org          ||  ...It's much more important
                                  ||  than that!

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Grant Goodyear]

> However, we do install ssmtp by default.  This is a lightweight (it only
> relays to a hub) /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail clone.
> 
> It's so small I bet you didn't even notice it on your system.  8)
> 
> But like I said, for a default install (remember, you too can create
> your own profiles) I think it's wise to not alienate people trying out
> Gentoo by not having "standard" tools.  Now, I'm not saying out
> /usr/bin/mail and /usr/sbin/sendmail need to be mailx and sendmail
> proper (in fact I think nail and ssmtp make excellent replacements).
> But I do think that something should be there to meet today's baseline
> expectations.

You're right, I didn't know that.  Fair enough!  I just didn't
want to install sendmail by default because it's awfully large.

-Grant-
-- 
___________________________________________________________________
|     Grant Goodyear                  |  The Secrets of Physics:   |
|     Dept. of Chemistry - UH         |1. Add zero.                |
|     Houston, TX  77204              |2. Multiply by one.         |
|-------------------------------------|3. Expand in a Taylor series|
|e-mail: goodyear@uh.edu              |4. Integrate by parts.      |
|www:bernacchi.chem.uh.edu/~grant     |5. Fourier transform.       |
|                                     |6. Add auxiliary variables  |
|_____________________________________|____________________________|
 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Jerry A!]

On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 04:40:28PM -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
: > However, we do install ssmtp by default.  This is a lightweight (it only
: > relays to a hub) /usr/{lib,sbin}/sendmail clone.
: > 
: > It's so small I bet you didn't even notice it on your system.  8)
: > 
: > But like I said, for a default install (remember, you too can create
: > your own profiles) I think it's wise to not alienate people trying out
: > Gentoo by not having "standard" tools.  Now, I'm not saying out
: > /usr/bin/mail and /usr/sbin/sendmail need to be mailx and sendmail
: > proper (in fact I think nail and ssmtp make excellent replacements).
: > But I do think that something should be there to meet today's baseline
: > expectations.
: 
: You're right, I didn't know that.  Fair enough!  I just didn't
: want to install sendmail by default because it's awfully large.

So, would you be adverse to the idea of me updating nail to RDEPEND on
virtual/mta?  I'll ask Achim to have the nail/ssmtp combo be in the
default profile.

Mostly, I'd just like our mail architecture to behave as sanely and
consistently as possible no matter what combination of programs we use.

        --Jerry

name:  Jerry Alexandratos         ||  Open-Source software isn't a
phone: 703.599.6023               ||  matter of life or death...
email: jerry@thehutt.org          ||  ...It's much more important
                                  ||  than that!

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Daniel Robbins]

On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 05:49:53PM -0400, Jerry A! wrote:

> So, would you be adverse to the idea of me updating nail to RDEPEND on
> virtual/mta?  I'll ask Achim to have the nail/ssmtp combo be in the
> default profile.
> 
> Mostly, I'd just like our mail architecture to behave as sanely and
> consistently as possible no matter what combination of programs we use.
> 
>         --Jerry

Jerry,

Once there's consensus on the default system profile regarding mailers, just
email me of what you'd like and I'll update the system profile for you.

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins					<drobbins@gentoo.org>
President/CEO					http://www.gentoo.org 
Gentoo Technologies, Inc.			

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailers, Mailers, Mailers!!!

[Grant Goodyear]

> So, would you be adverse to the idea of me updating nail to RDEPEND on
> virtual/mta?  I'll ask Achim to have the nail/ssmtp combo be in the
> default profile.
> 
> Mostly, I'd just like our mail architecture to behave as sanely and
> consistently as possible no matter what combination of programs we use.

I have no real arguments against it, at least none that would
counter your arguments for it!

-Grant-
-- 
___________________________________________________________________
|     Grant Goodyear                  |  The Secrets of Physics:   |
|     Dept. of Chemistry - UH         |1. Add zero.                |
|     Houston, TX  77204              |2. Multiply by one.         |
|-------------------------------------|3. Expand in a Taylor series|
|e-mail: goodyear@uh.edu              |4. Integrate by parts.      |
|www:bernacchi.chem.uh.edu/~grant     |5. Fourier transform.       |
|                                     |6. Add auxiliary variables  |
|_____________________________________|____________________________|