[gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 510 bytes --]

Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jose Mª Calvillo aka Lechucks]

Nobody here using debian.


On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:44:57 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.
> 
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
> Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
> Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
> 
> 
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Collins Richey]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:10:21 +0100, Jose Mª Calvillo aka Lechucks
<lechucks@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nobody here using debian.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:44:57 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> > I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> > sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> > christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> > their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.
> >

Nope, nobody but us chickens here, boss!

BTW, the Ashcroft-worshipping right wing christian rednecks I know
wouldn't be caught dead in an SUV; they all roam the flat earth in
their pick-em-up trucks.

-- 
 Collins

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ioannis Aslanidis]

What's going on exactly?? I h8 d*b**n btw :P


> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:44:57 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> > > I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> > > sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> > > christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> > > their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.
> > >


-- 
Ioannis Aslanidis
<deathwing00[at]forums.gentoo.org> 0xC2539DA3
<aioannis[at]tinet.org> 0xF202D067
<dwcommander[at]users.sourceforge.net>

Hellenic Gentoo GNU/Linux project manager (http://hellenicgentoo.sf.net)
FIRECOPS++ project manager (http://firecops.sf.net)
Gentoo Forums Global  Moderator (http://forums.gentoo.org)

Computer Engineering student at Universitat Rovira i Virgili
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[purslow]

050226 Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.

ok, i'll bite (grin).

what does this ugly-named package do & whence did it get its name ?

further comment -- possibly -- when i have more information.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Daniel Armyr]

brainfuck is a parodical programming language.
One can assume that the package gives color-highlightning and formatting for it.

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
daniel.armyr@home.se	f00-dar@f.kth.se
Tegnergatan 40 rum 505	+46 8 31 52 17	
113 59 Stockholm	+46 73 038 3097
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[purslow]

050227 Daniel Armyr wrote:
> One can assume it gives color-highlightning and formatting for it.

yes, that's what i assumed.

> brainfuck is a parodical programming language.

whatever is a parodical programming language ?
a parody is something which makes fun of something serious:
i can picture a parody of a language manual or perhaps a C program,
but not a language which is itself a parody.
even if someone wrote a set of programming rules which were a parody,
they could not be used to write real programs
& so could not require any kind of color-hiliting for use with Vim.

who among Gentooists is expected to use this package & for what purpose ?
any further enlightenment ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Krzysiek Pawlik]

purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
>>brainfuck is a parodical programming language.
> whatever is a parodical programming language ?

Visit it's site: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/ - You'll know 
why 'parodical'.

-- 
Krzysiek 'Nelchael' Pawlik     RLU #322999    krzysiek.pawlik@people.pl
gentoo base system - kernel 2.6.10-ck5                   GPG:0x7E226904
http://fatcat.ftj.agh.edu.pl/~nelchael/
If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Lars Strojny]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 500 bytes --]

On So, 2005-02-27 at 04:40 -0500, purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
[...]
> who among Gentooists is expected to use this package & for what purpose ?
> any further enlightenment ?

It is usable! [1]

[1] http://www.usrportage.de/article/129/

Greets, Lars Strojny
-- 
name: Lars Strojny         web: http://strojny.net 
street: Yorckstrasse 22    blog: http://usrportage.de
city: D-71636 Ludwigsburg  mail/jabber: lars@strojny.net
f-print: 1FD5 D8EE D996 8E3E 1417  328A 240F 17EB 0263 AC07

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 827 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[purslow]

050227 Lars Strojny wrote:
> [1] http://www.usrportage.de/article/129/

"Not found: please check the name & try again".

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[purslow]

050227 Krzysiek Pawlik wrote:
> Visit it's site: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/
> - You'll know why 'parodical'.

not really: it looks like something which might have real uses.
it's a pity its inventor gave it such an ugly name,
but some people are like that ... (smile).

since the name is well-established, no objection here to adding it to Gentoo.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Lars Strojny]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 538 bytes --]

On So, 2005-02-27 at 08:50 -0500, purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
> 050227 Lars Strojny wrote:
> > [1] http://www.usrportage.de/article/129/
> 
> "Not found: please check the name & try again".

Hm, strange. Works quite well from here.

Can you send me the result of your dns-request?

Greets, Lars
-- 
name: Lars Strojny         web: http://strojny.net 
street: Yorckstrasse 22    blog: http://usrportage.de
city: D-71636 Ludwigsburg  mail/jabber: lars@strojny.net
f-print: 1FD5 D8EE D996 8E3E 1417  328A 240F 17EB 0263 AC07

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 827 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Krzysiek Pawlik]

purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
>>Visit it's site: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/
>>- You'll know why 'parodical'.
> not really: it looks like something which might have real uses.

Hm... harder than perl, uglier than perl - nope. I think I'll stay with 
C/C++ and Python :)

> it's a pity its inventor gave it such an ugly name,
> but some people are like that ... (smile).

If someone doesn't like it's name - use acronym - bf

> since the name is well-established, no objection here to adding it to Gentoo.

I'm not a dev, but I don't have any objections too.

-- 
Krzysiek 'Nelchael' Pawlik     RLU #322999    krzysiek.pawlik@people.pl
gentoo base system - kernel 2.6.10-ck5                   GPG:0x7E226904
http://fatcat.ftj.agh.edu.pl/~nelchael/
Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[znmeb]

Quoting Krzysiek Pawlik <krzysiek.pawlik@people.pl>:

> purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
> >>Visit it's site: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/
> >>- You'll know why 'parodical'.
> > not really: it looks like something which might have real uses.
>
> Hm... harder than perl, uglier than perl - nope. I think I'll stay with
> C/C++ and Python :)
>
> > it's a pity its inventor gave it such an ugly name,
> > but some people are like that ... (smile).
>
> If someone doesn't like it's name - use acronym - bf
>
> > since the name is well-established, no objection here to adding it to
> Gentoo.
>
> I'm not a dev, but I don't have any objections too.

Well ... someone's gotta step in and say "No!", so I will. I've just witnessed
and participated in a semi-debate on the value of devoting effort to
Gentoo/CygWin. If Gentoo/CygWin isn't worth the effort to maintain, why on
Earth are the developers wasting time on maintaining a package that does
absolutely nothing but *syntax coloring* in a *single* editor for a language
with a questionable name that is an 8-instruction Turing complete environment
limited to a 30 kilobyte address space?

Does Gentoo support the free APL derivative A Plus? How's that Axiom package
coming along? How about ebuilds for Common Lisp Music and Common Music
Notation? The x86-64 arch work -- that's all done, right? The GLSA integration
with Portage?

I'm not going to leave Gentoo because it supports vim syntax coloring for
brainfuck and Fedora and Debian don't. And I'm not going to leave Gentoo if
Debian supports it and Gentoo doesn't either. I simply think that just because
something is easy doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. In this
particular case, rather than ask if anyone **objects** to the package, let me
ask "Is there a *compelling* reason why it **should** be in the Portage tree?"
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2107 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:52:55 -0500 znmeb@cesmail.net wrote:
| Well ... someone's gotta step in and say "No!", so I will. I've just
| witnessed and participated in a semi-debate on the value of devoting
| effort to Gentoo/CygWin. If Gentoo/CygWin isn't worth the effort to
| maintain, why on Earth are the developers wasting time on maintaining
| a package that does absolutely nothing but *syntax coloring* in a
| *single* editor for a language with a questionable name that is an
| 8-instruction Turing complete environment limited to a 30 kilobyte
| address space?

Replying to this email is taking me more time than it took to build that
package and get it working correctly. All things considered, I doubt
that this one's going to be high maintenance, since the syntax file is
complete already.

| Does Gentoo support the free APL derivative A Plus? How's that Axiom
| package coming along? How about ebuilds for Common Lisp Music and
| Common Music Notation? The x86-64 arch work -- that's all done, right?
| The GLSA integration with Portage?

Tell you what. Buy me an amd64 box and I'll help out on amd64 arch work.
As for the others, I'm not in the relevant herds and have no interest in
them, so the only way I'd be working on those would be if you paid me to
do so.

| I'm not going to leave Gentoo because it supports vim syntax coloring
| for brainfuck and Fedora and Debian don't. And I'm not going to leave
| Gentoo if Debian supports it and Gentoo doesn't either. I simply think
| that just because something is easy doesn't necessarily mean it should
| be done. In this particular case, rather than ask if anyone
| **objects** to the package, let me ask "Is there a *compelling* reason
| why it **should** be in the Portage tree?" --

Yes. There're at least four Gentoo users *that I know personally* who
will be using this. So far as I know, I've never met anyone who uses
clisp on Gentoo.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Simon Stelling]

Hi,

znmeb@cesmail.net wrote:
> Well ... someone's gotta step in and say "No!", so I will. I've just witnessed
> and participated in a semi-debate on the value of devoting effort to
> Gentoo/CygWin. If Gentoo/CygWin isn't worth the effort to maintain, why on
> Earth are the developers wasting time on maintaining a package that does
> absolutely nothing but *syntax coloring* in a *single* editor for a language
> with a questionable name that is an 8-instruction Turing complete environment
> limited to a 30 kilobyte address space?

1. Getting Gentoo/* running and stable is a vast effort compared to 
maintain such a package.
2. It's fun.

> Does Gentoo support the free APL derivative A Plus? How's that Axiom package
> coming along? How about ebuilds for Common Lisp Music and Common Music
> Notation? The x86-64 arch work -- that's all done, right? The GLSA integration
> with Portage?

We're not here to give you your dream system, we're here to have fun (at 
least i hope so). Would you install an IRC server on a notebook and use 
it to chat in a train where all people are less than 3 meters from each 
other? It doesn't make any sense at all, but I can tell you, it's fun.

1. You can't force people to do what you want other than you pay them.
2. We're not one big dev-team, everyone has different interests. I'm 
pretty sure some people won't ever work on e.g. Gentoo/AMD64 simply 
because they don't have an amd64.

> something is easy doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. In this
> particular case, rather than ask if anyone **objects** to the package, let me
> ask "Is there a *compelling* reason why it **should** be in the Portage tree?"

Of course there is a reason: You can read your bf-programs easier.

Greetings,

blubb
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Colin Kingsley]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:52:55 -0500, znmeb@cesmail.net <znmeb@cesmail.net> wrote:
> "Is there a *compelling* reason why it **should** be in the Portage tree?"

Because I want to use it.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 536 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:40:02 -0500 Colin Kingsley <ckingsley@gmail.com>
wrote:
| On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:52:55 -0500, znmeb@cesmail.net
| <znmeb@cesmail.net> wrote:
| > "Is there a *compelling* reason why it **should** be in the Portage
| > tree?"
| 
| Because I want to use it.

I guess that settles it then, eh? Good. I now consider my ass officially
covered.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[purslow]

050227 Lars Strojny wrote:
> On So, 2005-02-27 at 08:50 -0500, purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
>> 050227 Lars Strojny wrote:
>>> [1] http://www.usrportage.de/article/129/
>> "Not found: please check the name & try again".
> Hm, strange. Works quite well from here.
> Can you send me the result of your dns-request?

i'm not sure how i'ld do that even with Lynx, let alone Firefox,
but i just retried with both & got thro' ok.
maybe the problem 1st time was that i denied their cookie.

way back when i was a graduate student, i discovered a pair of rules
from which the sentential calculus can be derived
(see Zeitschrift für Math Logik & Journal of Symbolic Logic c 1970-2)
& later i did some APL programming, so Bf appeals to me (at a glance).

i just wish they would use a more grown-up name for it:
there does not appear to be a package named 'bf',
so could that perhaps be used as the name in Gentoo ?
after all, the whole idea is to be as short & sweet as possible (smile).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Stephen P. Becker]

> i just wish they would use a more grown-up name for it:
> there does not appear to be a package named 'bf',
> so could that perhaps be used as the name in Gentoo ?
> after all, the whole idea is to be as short & sweet as possible (smile).
> 

What defines something as "grown-up" anyway?  Besides, who are you to 
question somebody else's values?  If the author wants to call it that, 
he/she has every right in the world.  To shorten it to "bf" would really 
be censorship, which I would really prefer gentoo not resort to.

Not only that, but let's say Joe user is looking for brainfuck packages 
in portage.  Do we really want to cause our users the pain of searching 
through portage just so they can find out we censored brainfuck related 
items to bf?  That would be silly.

Steve
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 518 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:03:32 -0500 purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
| i just wish they would use a more grown-up name for it:
| there does not appear to be a package named 'bf',
| so could that perhaps be used as the name in Gentoo ?
| after all, the whole idea is to be as short & sweet as possible

We use upstream names for packages where possible.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Nick Dimiduk]

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Yes. There're at least four Gentoo users *that I know personally* who
> will be using this. So far as I know, I've never met anyone who uses
> clisp on Gentoo.
> 

I use clisp on Gentoo, though we've never met.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[John David Robinson]

> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:44:57 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.


I feel I should point out that people who aren't Gentoo developers
regularly read this list (not to mention its availability in the
archives).  Some of them (maybe even devs themselves, though I can't
speak for them) have well-formed, educated opinions that you don't
share, and which you have insulted.

Some people, for reasons you would probably actually respect if you met
them in person and asked them why, object to "strong language".  I'm not
one of those people, but I respect them, and I'm kind of surprised to
see a Gentoo developer bash and stereotype them.  Whether or not you
agree with them, you're marginalizing them (not to mention pretty much
all Republicans and Christians who don't take your message with a hefty
grain of salt) when you draw them the way you did in your email.

I know this probably seems like a strong reaction, but for people on the
"other side of the fence", like some friends of mine, your email sounds
like a real stab at the (well thought out, as I'm sure yours are)
opinions and positions they hold.  I guess I don't see a need for that
on a list dedicated to conversation about this distribution's
development.

If you have to ask if someone objects to something you want to do, don't
make him or her have to feel like an idiot, prude, or an
"Ashcroft-worshipping, right wing Christian redneck" in order to
disagree with you.  Even if you don't agree with or understand them, or
decide against their objections in the end, their opinions are just as
worthy of respect and consideration as yours.


- John Robinson

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jon Portnoy]

On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 03:36:26PM -0500, John David Robinson wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:44:57 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> > I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> > sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> > christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> > their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.
> 
> 
> I feel I should point out that people who aren't Gentoo developers
> regularly read this list (not to mention its availability in the
> archives).  Some of them (maybe even devs themselves, though I can't
> speak for them) have well-formed, educated opinions that you don't
> share, and which you have insulted.
> 
> Some people, for reasons you would probably actually respect if you met
> them in person and asked them why, object to "strong language".  I'm not
> one of those people, but I respect them, and I'm kind of surprised to
> see a Gentoo developer bash and stereotype them.  Whether or not you
> agree with them, you're marginalizing them (not to mention pretty much
> all Republicans and Christians who don't take your message with a hefty
> grain of salt) when you draw them the way you did in your email.
> 

Or perhaps you just take things way too seriously.

Calm down.

-- 
Jon Portnoy
avenj/irc.freenode.net
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 944 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:36:26 -0500 John David Robinson
<strider@aravir.net> wrote:
| Even if you don't agree with or understand them, or decide against
| their objections in the end, their opinions are just as worthy of
| respect and consideration as yours.

They are? What about people who are of the opinion that the earth is
flat? Or people who think that JFK was assassinated by aliens who crash
landed their UFOs at Roswell? Or people who think that wearing magnetic
bracelets is good for your health? Or people who think that Avril
Lavigne has made a valuable cultural contribution to humanity? Or people
who think that DJB is the best thing since sliced bread? Or emacs users
who indent their Java source code using tabs? Should I respect their
opinions too?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all
> using debian? See,
> I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the
> tree, and I want to be
> sure that I'm not going to make any
> Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs,
> toting shotguns, waving
> their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is
> flat.

I object to it, and I don't fear how you spin it.

#gentoo and #gentoo-dev has a 'clean language policy'.
So anyone asking for support or just taking advantage
of the package name will be moderated. Period.  URI's,
"in quotes", or a package name....it'll get moderated.

That's unneeded extra work for the channel mods, and
some frustrated users. 

So don't be suprised if you hear alot more about this
if you go ahead with currently proposed package name. 

kutsuya (aka bit`)









		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 556 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) Jason S <kutsuya1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| #gentoo and #gentoo-dev has a 'clean language policy'.
| So anyone asking for support or just taking advantage
| of the package name will be moderated. Period.  URI's,
| "in quotes", or a package name....it'll get moderated.

Maybe you should come up with a better way of moderating those channels
then.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) Jason S
> <kutsuya1@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> | #gentoo and #gentoo-dev has a 'clean language
> policy'.
> | So anyone asking for support or just taking
> advantage
> | of the package name will be moderated. Period. 
> URI's,
> | "in quotes", or a package name....it'll get
> moderated.
> 
> Maybe you should come up with a better way of
> moderating those channels
> then.

What do you mean by 'better', and what are you
suggesting?

kutsuya (aka bit`)



	
		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Grant Goodyear]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1087 bytes --]

John David Robinson wrote: [Sun Feb 27 2005, 02:36:26PM CST]
> I feel I should point out that people who aren't Gentoo developers
> regularly read this list (not to mention its availability in the
> archives).  Some of them (maybe even devs themselves, though I can't
> speak for them) have well-formed, educated opinions that you don't
> share, and which you have insulted.

Ciaranm's original e-mail mostly comes under the heading of "trolling".
Please do not feed the trolls.

As an aside, I would prefer that our devs not use Gentoo mailing lists
for barely-Gentoo-related rants, since doing so does tend to make us
look a tad unprofessional.  On the other hand, Gentoo is a community
distribution that is developed by volunteers, not a professional
company, and moreover, I trust that people reading our mailing lists can
take what our devs say with the appropriate "grains of salt".

Best,
g2boojum
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 560 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:42:19 -0800 (PST) Jason S <kutsuya1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| What do you mean by 'better', and what are you
| suggesting?

I suggest that you don't kick people who talk about 'brainfuck' (the
programming language), just the same as you wouldn't kick someone for
saying 'are there any Gentoo users in Scunthorpe?' or 'the new release
of gentoo-syntax is rather swanky'.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Stephen P. Becker]

Jason S wrote:
> --- Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) Jason S
>><kutsuya1@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>| #gentoo and #gentoo-dev has a 'clean language
>>policy'.
>>| So anyone asking for support or just taking
>>advantage
>>| of the package name will be moderated. Period. 
>>URI's,
>>| "in quotes", or a package name....it'll get
>>moderated.
>>
>>Maybe you should come up with a better way of
>>moderating those channels
>>then.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by 'better', and what are you
> suggesting?
> 

I think he is suggesting you use some common sense instead of resorting 
to a knee jerk reaction.

Steve
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1095 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:45:08 -0600 Grant Goodyear <g2boojum@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| John David Robinson wrote: [Sun Feb 27 2005, 02:36:26PM CST]
| > I feel I should point out that people who aren't Gentoo developers
| > regularly read this list (not to mention its availability in the
| > archives).  Some of them (maybe even devs themselves, though I can't
| > speak for them) have well-formed, educated opinions that you don't
| > share, and which you have insulted.
| 
| Ciaranm's original e-mail mostly comes under the heading of
| "trolling". Please do not feed the trolls.

Actually, it came under the heading of "covering my ass so that when the
inevitable complaint makes its way to devrel, I have something to point
to to show that I didn't just commit the thing without asking first".
The trolling was just an incidental side effect thrown in to liven up
what would otherwise be an extremely boring thread.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Grant Goodyear]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1883 bytes --]

Jason S wrote: [Sun Feb 27 2005, 03:28:28PM CST]
> #gentoo and #gentoo-dev has a 'clean language policy'.
> So anyone asking for support or just taking advantage
> of the package name will be moderated. Period.  URI's,
> "in quotes", or a package name....it'll get moderated.

Yes, #gentoo and #gentoo-dev are "clean language" channels, but to the
best of my knowledge we've never actually "moderated" #gentoo-dev.  We
just politely request that people swearing in the channel not do so,
and explain the rationale.  If the person involved is not a dev, then
he or she may end up -v.

I should note that our "clean language" policy dates back to the very
early days of Gentoo, and the rationale is that #gentoo-dev is a public
point of contact between our users and our developers, and the policy
helps us provide a bit of professionalism.  It's not clear that there
is anything unprofessional about referring to a programming language by
its name, even if that name is rather unfortunate (in my, admittedly
rather prudish, opinion).  For people like me who are uncomfortable
using the actual name, "brainf*ck" would be equally clear, and many
people will use a similar version just out of politeness.  I don't
think they _need_ to do so, however, to be professional.

> So don't be suprised if you hear alot more about this
> if you go ahead with currently proposed package name. 

My understanding is that the amount of "brainf*ck" support that will be
needed is likely to be pretty small.  It's not exactly a language that
everybody is running out to learn and deploy, after all.  So, I rather
doubt that one would hear "alot [sic]" about this package regardless of policy.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- "Stephen P. Becker" <geoman@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Jason S wrote:
> > --- Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) Jason S
> >><kutsuya1@yahoo.com>

[...]

> > 
> > What do you mean by 'better', and what are you
> > suggesting?
> > 
> 
> I think he is suggesting you use some common sense
> instead of resorting 
> to a knee jerk reaction.
> 
> Steve

Using your 'common sense' how does this fit into the
'clean language' policy?  From my point of view if
that package name is allowed then the policy is
unenforcable.

It's not a knee jerk reaction. I saw this problem
coming way back. I have dealt with it before, and have
no reason to change.

I've already given devrel a heads-up about this today.

Regards,

kutsuya (aka bit`)


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Stephen P. Becker]

Before anyone else replies to this thread, I would like to point out 
that BitchX has been in portage as long as I've used Gentoo, and nobody 
has complained about that.  Do people that talk about BitchX also get 
moderated in #gentoo?

Steve
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Grant Goodyear <g2boojum@gentoo.org> wrote:




> It's not
> clear that there
> is anything unprofessional about referring to a
> programming language by
> its name, even if that name is rather unfortunate
> (in my, admittedly
> rather prudish, opinion).  

I consider the programming language name to be
unprofessional. Avoiding the vulgar doesn't make you a
prude. heh

>For people like me who are uncomfortable
> using the actual name, "brainf*ck" would be equally
> clear, and many people will use a similar version
>just out of
> politeness.  

Acceptable.

> My understanding is that the amount of "brainf*ck"
> support that will be
> needed is likely to be pretty small.  It's not
> exactly a language that
> everybody is running out to learn and deploy, after
> all.  So, I rather
> doubt that one would hear "alot [sic]" about this
> package regardless of policy.

Sorry about the grammar. I've only gotten about 7
hours sleep last couple days. "a lot" was just my
spin. :P

Regards,

kutsuya (aka bit`)


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- "Stephen P. Becker" <geoman@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Before anyone else replies to this thread, I would
> like to point out 
> that BitchX has been in portage as long as I've used
> Gentoo, and nobody 
> has complained about that.  Do people that talk
> about BitchX also get 
> moderated in #gentoo?

Yes, I've noticed that. Bitch is generally exceptable.
It could easily mean female WolfX. Also the FCC
doesn't bleep it. If a user starts to call another
user a bitch that is a whole different matter.

Regards,

kutsuya (aka bit`)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Stephen P. Becker]

> Using your 'common sense' how does this fit into the
> 'clean language' policy?  From my point of view if
> that package name is allowed then the policy is
> unenforcable.

Your "clean language" policy is totally flawed then.  Part of what makes 
words "offensive" isn't the word itself, but intent.  Are you saying if 
somebody told you to "go fuck yourself" and another said something like 
"go have sex with yourself" on the channel, you wouldn't kick both of 
them, since what each said means *exactly* the same thing?

If I say, "I really like using the brainfuck language, it lets me do 
<blah> and <foo>," there was nothing I said with any malicious intent. 
Now if somebody starts spouting out crap like, "haha, I'm going to 
dev-lang/brainfuck you!" then that is a case where it is obvious they 
are just being stupid and require moderation.

> 
> It's not a knee jerk reaction.

Sure it is.  While you are at it, why don't you start kicking people 
with l33t speak names, since that happens to offend me (in that utter 
stupidity offends me).  While you are at it, you should also kick any 
person that says WTF, and LMFAO, since *everyone* knows they just said 
"what the fuck" and "laugh my fucking ass off" in front of the whole 
channel.  Or, does reducing it to an acronym make it any less offensive 
in your eyes?

> I saw this problem
> coming way back. I have dealt with it before, and have
> no reason to change.

Do you kick people that talk about bitchx then?

Steve
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Stephen P. Becker]

> If a user starts to call another
> user a bitch that is a whole different matter.
> 

There you go!  This is how you deal with brainfuck as well.

Steve
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Lance Albertson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1239 bytes --]

On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 20:44 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian? See,
> I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, and I want to be
> sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping right wing
> christian rednecks come after me in their SUVs, toting shotguns, waving
> their rebel flags and proclaiming that the Earth is flat.

You know, I really don't see the need for having stereo types labeled in
an email such as this. I would have done something more along the lines
of "hey, there's this app called X and it may seem inapprioate to other
people. Here is the link for it, if you have issues me adding it, please
let me know." But no, you had to use some uneeded stereo typical phrases
to catch people's attention. What did this gain you? You had to have
known it would stir up people. Tell me the logic of doing it this way, I
fail to see what it gains other than people upset with you.

-- 
Lance Albertson <ramereth@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Infrastructure | Operations Manager

---
GPG Public Key:  <http://www.ramereth.net/lance.asc>
Key fingerprint: 0423 92F3 544A 1282 5AB1  4D07 416F A15D 27F4 B742

ramereth/irc.freenode.net

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[John David Robinson]

On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 20:56 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:36:26 -0500 John David Robinson
> <strider@aravir.net> wrote:
> | Even if you don't agree with or understand them, or decide against
> | their objections in the end, their opinions are just as worthy of
> | respect and consideration as yours.
> 
> They are? What about people who are of the opinion that the earth is
> flat? Or people who think that JFK was assassinated by aliens who crash
> landed their UFOs at Roswell? Or people who think that wearing magnetic
> bracelets is good for your health? Or people who think that Avril
> Lavigne has made a valuable cultural contribution to humanity? Or people
> who think that DJB is the best thing since sliced bread? Or emacs users
> who indent their Java source code using tabs? Should I respect their
> opinions too?

Heh.  Those Java tabbers... they just boil my blood. =)

I'm not trying to start a massive thread here or anything.  I think I
understand you.  Yes, some opinions or beliefs people hold are (to me,
too) laughable.  But making light of them still offends people in whose
lives those issues actually matter.  I just wanted to bring that out.

The particular opinions you made fun of are much more widely held than
JFK's assassination by aliens.  Some people who read this forum found
your post funny; some found it offensive.  It's clear that this comes as
a surprise to some people, and not at all to others.  That's all I
really wanted to make clear.

- John

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- "Stephen P. Becker" <geoman@gentoo.org> wrote:

It has been my experience not to argue about it, it
has yet to change opinions on either side.

If you have a problem with how I moderate #gentoo,
feel free to take it to devrel. I stated how I feel
about it. So until I'm contacted, I will continue
moderate as I have for over a year. 

Regards,
  kutsuya (aka bit`)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Kumba]

Jason S wrote:
> 
> Using your 'common sense' how does this fit into the
> 'clean language' policy?  From my point of view if
> that package name is allowed then the policy is
> unenforcable.

This is one of the reasons why the English language is so complex.  When I 
make a statement referencing "brainfuck", I'm referencing the name of a 
language, regardless of what words comprise the name.  The usage of our 
friendly, four-letter word in the name itself is not intended to be vulgar in 
the same context as calling someone an "f'ing idiot" </self censorship>.  In 
this case, the latter is the violation that should be taken care of.  The 
former deserves a slight chuckle at best.

Users/devs in the channels should be judged not on what words are spoken, but 
on how the words are spoken.  It's the intent that matters most.


--Kumba

-- 
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small 
hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." 
--Elrond
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1479 bytes --]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:41:39 -0600 Lance Albertson <ramereth@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| You know, I really don't see the need for having stereo types labeled
| in an email such as this. I would have done something more along the
| lines of "hey, there's this app called X and it may seem inapprioate
| to other people. Here is the link for it, if you have issues me adding
| it, please let me know." But no, you had to use some uneeded stereo
| typical phrases to catch people's attention. What did this gain you?
| You had to have known it would stir up people. Tell me the logic of
| doing it this way, I fail to see what it gains other than people upset
| with you.

It's really quite simple. Thanks to devrel's habit of making nasty
threats to any developer who upsets a user, it's now necessary to post a
message like this indicating that the issue was discussed before
implementation. A sensible post might imply that I find these kinds of
restrictions acceptable, and that I'm happy to sit around and watch the
distribution be ruined by debian-style bureaucracy (anyone else see the
hotbabe mess?).

Anyway, I now consider my ass to be sufficiently well covered, and I've
yet to see any coherent objections, so I've gone ahead with the commit.
If you don't like it, feel free to not use it.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Kumba <kumba@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Users/devs in the channels should be judged not on
> what words are spoken, but 
> on how the words are spoken.  It's the intent that
> matters most.

I usually don't read to find the intent, unless trying
to figure who started something. I just don't have
time. It's much easier to just make certain words
taboo. 

Are you volunteering to be a 'intent' reader in
#gentoo? I find those harder to spot(highligher
doesn't catch them), since I'm often working on
something else.  Could use the help. :D

Regards,
  kutsuya (aka bit`)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Lina Pezzella]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This thread brings up a very good point. There are little children 
using our distribution, and they should not be exposed to dirty words 
such as the one being disputed in this thread. There are other packages 
that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to mind, and "Evolution" 
is on the top of my die-package-die list. We certainly wouldn't want 
little children asking about that, now would we?

In light of the above, I suggest that in the interest of being sure not 
to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned packages and any 
others that might be offensive. It's not censorship, it's decency.

Lina Pezzella
Ebuild/Porting Co-Lead
Gentoo for Mac OS X
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCIlO+NJ9STR9DbYERAnGEAJ9UWVhMZts3KBmDe92IPvhEnv9zJACfds4y
5xZic+UOXcdVDJBgUx2IbEs=
=o0qW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Anyway, I now consider my ass to be sufficiently
> well covered, and I've
> yet to see any coherent objections, so I've gone
> ahead with the commit.
> If you don't like it, feel free to not use it.

You did get an objection. You pretty much ignored it.
Use to that as a language cop. ;) It's a pretty much
thankless job. heh

kutsuya (aka bit`)



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Luke-Jr]

On Sunday 27 February 2005 22:34, Stephen P. Becker wrote:
> While you are at it, you should also kick any person that says WTF since
> *everyone* knows they just said "what the fuck" in front of the whole
> channel.

I'm sure that I'm not the only person who uses "WTF" as an abbreviation for 
"what the fsck" instead of the more common acronym. 
-- 
Luke-Jr
Developer, Utopios
http://utopios.org/
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> This thread brings up a very good point. There are
> little children 
> using our distribution, and they should not be
> exposed to dirty words 
> such as the one being disputed in this thread. There
> are other packages 
> that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to
> mind, and "Evolution" 
> is on the top of my die-package-die list. We
> certainly wouldn't want 
> little children asking about that, now would we?
> 
> In light of the above, I suggest that in the
> interest of being sure not 
> to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned
> packages and any 
> others that might be offensive. It's not censorship,
> it's decency.

Thanks for the mocking. :(

Well maybe we should have a vote if my moderating
services are no longer needed. I could find better
things to do with my time quite frankly. I just took
the job because it was policy and something I could do
in the background, and I took the heat from other
devs. It's boring and a thankless job. I even get
threats to my life sometimes, nevermind them sharing
their thoughts of what they think of me. ;)

Maybe it's time to do something else. 

regards,
  kutsuya (aka bit`)




	
		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Georgi Georgiev]

maillog: 27/02/2005-23:03:07(+0000): Ciaran McCreesh types
> It's really quite simple. Thanks to devrel's habit of making nasty
> threats to any developer who upsets a user, it's now necessary to post a
> message like this indicating that the issue was discussed before
> implementation. A sensible post might imply that I find these kinds of
> restrictions acceptable, and that I'm happy to sit around and watch the
> distribution be ruined by debian-style bureaucracy (anyone else see the
> hotbabe mess?).

maillog: 27/02/2005-18:11:58(-0500): Lina Pezzella types
> This thread brings up a very good point. There are little children 
> using our distribution, and they should not be exposed to dirty words 
> such as the one being disputed in this thread. There are other packages 
> that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to mind, and "Evolution" 
> is on the top of my die-package-die list. We certainly wouldn't want 
> little children asking about that, now would we?
> 
> In light of the above, I suggest that in the interest of being sure not 
> to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned packages and any 
> others that might be offensive. It's not censorship, it's decency.

It's time to add a "offendme" FEATURE similar to the "offensive" USE
flag. Unsetting the FEATURE should add --exclude '*fuck*' --exclude
'*bitch*' --exclude '*evoluion*', etc. to the rsync command line. Boy,
I'd love to see that implemented :))

Also add dev-libs/hashit to the list. The last 4 letters are way too
offensive.

Anyone up for the GLEP?

-- 
/    Georgi Georgiev   /  I want to read my new poem about pork        /
\     chutz@gg3.net    \  brains and outer space ...                   \
/   +81(90)6266-1163   /                                               /
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Kumba]

Jason S wrote:

> 
> I usually don't read to find the intent, unless trying
> to figure who started something. I just don't have
> time. It's much easier to just make certain words
> taboo. 

This is an inherent flaw in some circles of society.  This is also the exact 
kind of thing ciaranm was checking for.  People who instantly see something 
"bad" and then freak out often cause problesm for the rest of us who would 
merely shrug it off.

It's similar to the wardrobe malfunction seen in the 2004 Superbowl.  US 
society has a rather peculiar habit of labelling an exposed breast as a 
hideous, evil thing that should be censored immediately, while freely airing 
erectile dysfunction commercials every 5 minutes.  The intent of Jackson and 
Timberlake was to surprise everyone -- unfortunately, their intent not only 
backfired and surprised them, but also overdid the surprise factor to everyone 
else watching.  The intent of the erectile dysfunction commercials was to 
simply exploit the human desire for better sex.

Which do you think is more offensive now that the intent is known?, being 
surprised or being exploited?  The same goes for the purpose of this topic -- 
the name "brainfuck" will probably surprise a few people, make a few chuckle, 
raise some eyebrows on others.  But is it going to seriously impede the mental 
growth of some individual that sees it, or otherwise cause them harm?  I say 
highly unlikely.  Using our friendly, four-letter word in a more blunt 
statement directed as a personal attack against someone will cause far greater 
harm than simply seeing it in the name of a package.


> Are you volunteering to be a 'intent' reader in
> #gentoo? I find those harder to spot(highligher
> doesn't catch them), since I'm often working on
> something else.  Could use the help. :D

I'm insane enough as it is, I don't need to be driven any more so by 
monitoring #gentoo :)


--Kumba

-- 
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small 
hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." 
--Elrond
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Kumba]

Lina Pezzella wrote:
> 
> This thread brings up a very good point. There are little children using 
> our distribution, and they should not be exposed to dirty words such as 
> the one being disputed in this thread. There are other packages that are 
> also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to mind, and "Evolution" is on the 
> top of my die-package-die list. We certainly wouldn't want little 
> children asking about that, now would we?

Physical age != Mental age.  If there's a kid out there young in physical age, 
and they're able to figure out Linux enough to install gentoo, then I would 
imagine their mental age is of a sufficient level to not be offended by the 
package name.


--Kumba

-- 
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small 
hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." 
--Elrond
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Lina Pezzella]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Feb 27, 2005, at 6:24 PM, Jason S wrote:

>
> --- Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> This thread brings up a very good point. There are
>> little children
>> using our distribution, and they should not be
>> exposed to dirty words
>> such as the one being disputed in this thread. There
>> are other packages
>> that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to
>> mind, and "Evolution"
>> is on the top of my die-package-die list. We
>> certainly wouldn't want
>> little children asking about that, now would we?
>>
>> In light of the above, I suggest that in the
>> interest of being sure not
>> to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned
>> packages and any
>> others that might be offensive. It's not censorship,
>> it's decency.
>
> Thanks for the mocking. :(

I wasn't mocking you. I was making a point about the dangers of 
censorship.

>
> Well maybe we should have a vote if my moderating
> services are no longer needed. I could find better
> things to do with my time quite frankly. I just took
> the job because it was policy and something I could do
> in the background, and I took the heat from other
> devs. It's boring and a thankless job. I even get
> threats to my life sometimes, nevermind them sharing
> their thoughts of what they think of me. ;)

I never mentioned what I thought of you; please don't misrepresent my 
words. Furthermore, my post had to do with censoring Ciaran's package 
in the tree, not maintaining a level of politeness in a chat room.

>
> Maybe it's time to do something else.

If that's the way you feel, then so be it. However, I think we would 
all hate to lose your valuable help in #gentoo.

>
> regards,
>   kutsuya (aka bit`)
>
>
>
>
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
Lina Pezzella
Ebuild/Porting Co-Lead
Gentoo for Mac OS X
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCImHfNJ9STR9DbYERAncXAJ9KyCZbUqsuCwwcLQHgL//Wxt2nGQCfbSMw
0AGCj40AdrzurCp84wNAWN4=
=D289
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jason S]

--- Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> On Feb 27, 2005, at 6:24 PM, Jason S wrote:
> 
> >
> > --- Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >

> I wasn't mocking you. I was making a point about the
> dangers of censorship.

ok.



> I never mentioned what I thought of you; please
> don't misrepresent my 
> words. Furthermore, my post had to do with censoring
> Ciaran's package 
> in the tree, not maintaining a level of politeness
> in a chat room.

Sorry if it seemed like I wasmisrepresenting your
words. Thought I was just giving small summary of my
experiences.

Maintaining politeness in a chat room is censorship.
It's restricting what they can say, instead of telling
other people what they really want to say. 

> If that's the way you feel, then so be it. However,
> I think we would 
> all hate to lose your valuable help in #gentoo.

Thanks. Haven't gotten much sleep in the last couple
days, but had to make an objection anyways.

Regards,
  kutsuya (aka bit`)


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Andrew Gaffney]

Bill Davidson wrote:
> And the first 4 letters are offensive as well. BTW, am I the only person that
> is thinking of the South Park movie while following this thread.
> :-)

Blame Canada!

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Bill Davidson]

On 08:32 Mon 28 Feb     , Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> It's time to add a "offendme" FEATURE similar to the "offensive" USE
> flag. Unsetting the FEATURE should add --exclude '*fuck*' --exclude
> '*bitch*' --exclude '*evoluion*', etc. to the rsync command line. Boy,
> I'd love to see that implemented :))
> 
> Also add dev-libs/hashit to the list. The last 4 letters are way too
> offensive.

And the first 4 letters are offensive as well. BTW, am I the only person that
is thinking of the South Park movie while following this thread.
:-)

Bill
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[M. Edward (Ed) Borasky]

Nick Dimiduk wrote:

> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>
>> Yes. There're at least four Gentoo users *that I know personally* who
>> will be using this. So far as I know, I've never met anyone who uses
>> clisp on Gentoo.
>>
>
> I use clisp on Gentoo, though we've never met.

I use clisp ... and cmucl and sbcl and gcl and guile. And sometimes 
Java. And often Fortran. And *all* on Gentoo. I use LISP for things LISP 
is good at, R for things R is good at, Perl for things Perl is good at, 
etc. And I'd use A Plus for things it's good at if you had it in Portage!

I took a look at "the language with the name offensive to some". It's a 
toy language -- an undergrad or maybe even high school computer science 
exercise. If all I had to work with was an Altair or a KIM-1, I'd sure 
experiment with it. It has exactly one thing going for it -- compactness.

Well, guess what -- I have a Pentium III and an Athlon T-Bird, and there 
is at least one *real* computer language just as compact -- FORTH -- 
represented in Portage by "gforth". IIRC the Vim syntax coloring for 
FORTH is already in place. As a matter of fact, IIRC an implementation 
of Knuth's "MIX" pedantic language is also in Portage.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[W.Kenworthy]

Yep - would make a great south park episode, also add anything with
create or creationism in it (and bible/koran and other religious works)
- if evolution is on the list, so should they be.  (by the way, is
evolution offensive to anyone other than a small but vocal group in the
US - never heard of them active elsewhere except some loony fringe stuff
that even they would probably disown?)

BillK

bunyip root # emerge -s bible creat koran
Searching...
[ Results for search key : bible ]
[ Applications found : 2 ]

*  app-text/biblestudy [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 1.0
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of downloaded files: 345 kB
      Homepage:    http://www.whensdinner.com/
      Description: biblestudy software based on the sword library
      License:     GPL-2

*  app-text/bibletime
      Latest version available: 1.4.2_pre1
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of downloaded files: 2,073 kB
      Homepage:    http://bibletime.sourceforge.net/
      Description: BibleTime KDE Bible study application using the SWORD
library.
      License:     GPL-2


Searching...
[ Results for search key : creat ]
[ Applications found : 3 ]

*  dev-perl/PDF-Create
      Latest version available: 0.01
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of downloaded files: 12 kB
      Homepage:    http://www.cpan.org/author/FTASSIN/PDF-Create-0.01/
      Description: PDF::Create allows you to create PDF documents
      License:     Artistic

*  kde-base/kaudiocreator [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 3.4.0_rc1
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of downloaded files: 11,727 kB
      Homepage:    http://www.kde.org/
      Description: KDE CD ripper and audio encoder frontend
      License:     GPL-2

*  sys-boot/bootcreator [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 1.1
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of downloaded files: 17 kB
      Homepage:    http://tbs-software.com/morgoth/projects.html
      Description: Simple generator for Forth based BootMenu scripts for
Pegasos machines
      License:     GPL-2


Searching...
[ Results for search key : koran ]
[ Applications found : 0 ]


On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 20:40 -0500, Bill Davidson wrote:
> On 08:32 Mon 28 Feb     , Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > It's time to add a "offendme" FEATURE similar to the "offensive" USE
> > flag. Unsetting the FEATURE should add --exclude '*fuck*' --exclude
> > '*bitch*' --exclude '*evoluion*', etc. to the rsync command line. Boy,
> > I'd love to see that implemented :))
> > 
> > Also add dev-libs/hashit to the list. The last 4 letters are way too
> > offensive.
> 
> And the first 4 letters are offensive as well. BTW, am I the only person that
> is thinking of the South Park movie while following this thread.
> :-)
> 
> Bill
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Spider]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 534 bytes --]

On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote:


> What did this gain you? You had to have
> known it would stir up people. Tell me the logic of doing it this way, I
> fail to see what it gains other than people upset with you.

It earned him a smile, at least from a bunch of his peers, and a nod of
respect.    That is sometimes plenty in a community.

Good work, Ciaran.


//Spider

-- 
begin  .signature
Tortured users / Laughing in pain
See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information.
end


[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[M. Edward (Ed) Borasky]

Spider wrote:

>On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 16:41 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote:
>
>
>  
>
>>What did this gain you? You had to have
>>known it would stir up people. Tell me the logic of doing it this way, I
>>fail to see what it gains other than people upset with you.
>>    
>>
>
>It earned him a smile, at least from a bunch of his peers, and a nod of
>respect.    That is sometimes plenty in a community.
>
>Good work, Ciaran.
>
>
>//Spider
>
>  
>
Yes, I must admit I smiled last night when I ran my update script, which 
shows, among other things, the packages added to Portage since I last 
ran it. There it was, syntax coloring for you-know-what. Sadly, the 
you-know-what language itself doesn't seem to be in Portage yet. Ciaran, 
you *are* working on the ebuild, right? And you aren't going to wimp out 
and call it "bf", right?

Well ... time to get back to work on my GarageBand clone :).
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 919 bytes --]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:41:00 -0800 "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky"
<znmeb@cesmail.net> wrote:
| Yes, I must admit I smiled last night when I ran my update script,
| which  shows, among other things, the packages added to Portage since
| I last  ran it. There it was, syntax coloring for you-know-what.
| Sadly, the  you-know-what language itself doesn't seem to be in
| Portage yet. Ciaran,  you *are* working on the ebuild, right? And you
| aren't going to wimp out  and call it "bf", right?

Yeah, I've got ebuilds done for a couple of implementations. They'll
either be in the tree or in my overlay sometime in the future. I
believe latexer may be working on the mono implementation ebuild too...

Maybe I'll put out a call for a herd sometime.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jane Lee]

 
On Sunday, February 27, 2005, at 03:13PM, Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:
>This thread brings up a very good point. There are little children 
>using our distribution, and they should not be exposed to dirty words 
>such as the one being disputed in this thread. There are other packages 
>that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to mind, and "Evolution" 
>is on the top of my die-package-die list. We certainly wouldn't want 
>little children asking about that, now would we?
>
>In light of the above, I suggest that in the interest of being sure not 
>to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned packages and any 
>others that might be offensive. It's not censorship, it's decency.

I'm sorry.  I'm sure I'd be on the younger side of all the people actually reading all the stuff that goes on in this mailing list, being fifteen, but that someone would censor a package name because of a language that happens to have a vulgar (to some) name is unbelievable to me.  Come on.  I would think I get more exposure to offensive language from parents, friends, school and TV/movies, and seeing as how I've tried writing a few programs in brainfuck and I have used BitchX...I liberally sprinkle what I say with bad language when I see that there's a right occasion to do so.  I'm sure I've said fuck more times in a day than there has been in this thread about one guy who just wants to use "brainfuck" in a package name instead of the censored version.

I think that younger people who have enough reading skills and technical ability to install Gentoo or sign up for a mailing list would be mentally capable of understanding that the use of language like that isn't necessarily meant to offend someone, but that it's just someone's creative spin on a name.

Sheltering "little children" from what is closer to being just another name more than offensive language is utterly pointless.

Feel free to disagree.

Cheers
Jane
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Nick Dimiduk]

Jane Lee wrote:
>  
> On Sunday, February 27, 2005, at 03:13PM, Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>>This thread brings up a very good point. There are little children 
>>using our distribution, and they should not be exposed to dirty words 
>>such as the one being disputed in this thread. There are other packages 
>>that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to mind, and "Evolution" 
>>is on the top of my die-package-die list. We certainly wouldn't want 
>>little children asking about that, now would we?
>>
>>In light of the above, I suggest that in the interest of being sure not 
>>to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned packages and any 
>>others that might be offensive. It's not censorship, it's decency.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.  I'm sure I'd be on the younger side of all the people actually reading all the stuff that goes on in this mailing list, being fifteen, but that someone would censor a package name because of a language that happens to have a vulgar (to some) name is unbelievable to me.  Come on.  I would think I get more exposure to offensive language from parents, friends, school and TV/movies, and seeing as how I've tried writing a few programs in brainfuck and I have used BitchX...I liberally sprinkle what I say with bad language when I see that there's a right occasion to do so.  I'm sure I've said fuck more times in a day than there has been in this thread about one guy who just wants to use "brainfuck" in a package name instead of the censored version.
> 
> I think that younger people who have enough reading skills and technical ability to install Gentoo or sign up for a mailing list would be mentally capable of understanding that the use of language like that isn't necessarily meant to offend someone, but that it's just someone's creative spin on a name.
> 
> Sheltering "little children" from what is closer to being just another name more than offensive language is utterly pointless.
> 
> Feel free to disagree.
> 
> Cheers
> Jane

It would appear you missed the sarcasm in Lina's contribution to this 
thread...
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Jane Lee]

 
On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 11:41AM, Nick Dimiduk <ndimiduk@gentoo.org> wrote:
>It would appear you missed the sarcasm in Lina's contribution to this 
>thread...

im sure if there was any i would have missed it.  i merely skimmed the emails quickly.  on the flip side, sarcasm online is harder to catch than in real life.

cheers
j
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

znmeb@cesmail.net wrote:

>Quoting Krzysiek Pawlik <krzysiek.pawlik@people.pl>:
>
>  
>
>>purslow@sympatico.ca wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>Visit it's site: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/
>>>>- You'll know why 'parodical'.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>not really: it looks like something which might have real uses.
>>>      
>>>
>>Hm... harder than perl, uglier than perl - nope. I think I'll stay with
>>C/C++ and Python :)
>>
>>    
>>
>>>it's a pity its inventor gave it such an ugly name,
>>>but some people are like that ... (smile).
>>>      
>>>
>>If someone doesn't like it's name - use acronym - bf
>>
>>    
>>
>>>since the name is well-established, no objection here to adding it to
>>>      
>>>
>>Gentoo.
>>
>>I'm not a dev, but I don't have any objections too.
>>    
>>
>
>Well ... someone's gotta step in and say "No!", so I will. I've just witnessed
>and participated in a semi-debate on the value of devoting effort to
>Gentoo/CygWin. If Gentoo/CygWin isn't worth the effort to maintain, why on
>Earth are the developers wasting time on maintaining a package that does
>absolutely nothing but *syntax coloring* in a *single* editor for a language
>with a questionable name that is an 8-instruction Turing complete environment
>limited to a 30 kilobyte address space?
>
>Does Gentoo support the free APL derivative A Plus? How's that Axiom package
>coming along? How about ebuilds for Common Lisp Music and Common Music
>Notation? The x86-64 arch work -- that's all done, right? The GLSA integration
>with Portage?
>
>I'm not going to leave Gentoo because it supports vim syntax coloring for
>brainfuck and Fedora and Debian don't. And I'm not going to leave Gentoo if
>Debian supports it and Gentoo doesn't either. I simply think that just because
>something is easy doesn't necessarily mean it should be done. In this
>particular case, rather than ask if anyone **objects** to the package, let me
>ask "Is there a *compelling* reason why it **should** be in the Portage tree?"
>--
>gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>  
>
Because there's someone who seems willing to create and maintain it.  
Apparently nobody has enough interest in those other packages to do so.  
Why don't you hire someone to do it for you since it sounds like you 
aren't really wanting to do so either.  Maybe they'll give you a break 
on rates if you let them submit it to Gentoo with their names on it 
(even though the ebuilds would be works for hire).
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

Stephen P. Becker wrote:

>> i just wish they would use a more grown-up name for it:
>> there does not appear to be a package named 'bf',
>> so could that perhaps be used as the name in Gentoo ?
>> after all, the whole idea is to be as short & sweet as possible (smile).
>>
>
> What defines something as "grown-up" anyway?  Besides, who are you to 
> question somebody else's values?  If the author wants to call it that, 
> he/she has every right in the world.  To shorten it to "bf" would 
> really be censorship, which I would really prefer gentoo not resort to.
>
> Not only that, but let's say Joe user is looking for brainfuck 
> packages in portage.  Do we really want to cause our users the pain of 
> searching through portage just so they can find out we censored 
> brainfuck related items to bf?  That would be silly.
>
> Steve
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

You could name the package with bf to keep the package name short for 
ease of those manually typing the emerge command.  Include brainfuck in 
the description so an esearch for it returns any bf packages.

Now we just need someone to make a language named bullshit so people 
will still know what they're getting when it gets abbreviated "bs".
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

Luke-Jr wrote:

>On Sunday 27 February 2005 22:34, Stephen P. Becker wrote:
>  
>
>>While you are at it, you should also kick any person that says WTF since
>>*everyone* knows they just said "what the fuck" in front of the whole
>>channel.
>>    
>>
>
>I'm sure that I'm not the only person who uses "WTF" as an abbreviation for 
>"what the fsck" instead of the more common acronym. 
>  
>
You're still only one step removed as everyone with even one geek gene 
in their DNA knows you're just slipping a geek-slanged "what the fuck" 
using an unfortunate program name abbreviation past a censorship filter 
and everyone without thinks you just made a typo saying "what the fuck" 
or did it on purpose to get past a censorship filter.

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

Jason S wrote:

>--- Kumba <kumba@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Users/devs in the channels should be judged not on
>>what words are spoken, but 
>>on how the words are spoken.  It's the intent that
>>matters most.
>>    
>>
>
>I usually don't read to find the intent, unless trying
>to figure who started something. I just don't have
>time. It's much easier to just make certain words
>taboo. 
>
>Are you volunteering to be a 'intent' reader in
>#gentoo? I find those harder to spot(highligher
>doesn't catch them), since I'm often working on
>something else.  Could use the help. :D
>
>Regards,
>  kutsuya (aka bit`)
>--
>gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>  
>
This must be the quandary the censors had when Bono got his award and 
said on a live broadcast "That's fucking great." and it didn't get 
bleeped.  Somehow, in their 5 second delay, they managed to decide that 
the word was okay to use as part of an adjective.

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

Lina Pezzella wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> This thread brings up a very good point. There are little children 
> using our distribution, and they should not be exposed to dirty words 
> such as the one being disputed in this thread. There are other 
> packages that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to mind, and 
> "Evolution" is on the top of my die-package-die list. We certainly 
> wouldn't want little children asking about that, now would we?
>
> In light of the above, I suggest that in the interest of being sure 
> not to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned packages and 
> any others that might be offensive. It's not censorship, it's decency.
>
> Lina Pezzella
> Ebuild/Porting Co-Lead
> Gentoo for Mac OS X
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (Darwin)
>
> iD8DBQFCIlO+NJ9STR9DbYERAnGEAJ9UWVhMZts3KBmDe92IPvhEnv9zJACfds4y
> 5xZic+UOXcdVDJBgUx2IbEs=
> =o0qW
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

What you are suggesting is considered a slippery slope.  If you remove 
any packages based on the beliefs of a few, you'll eventually have to 
remove a few more as others with different beliefs show up and announce 
their offense.  This will go on until our genetically modified crops 
start using the Internet and announce that they're offended by the word 
kernel on behalf of their corn brethren and there goes your entire OS.

The only way I could see around this would be to have the mirroring 
system be given a list of potentially offensive names and have the sync 
only grab them if the admins set the system to allow such packages.  (Of 
course, some parents will still bitchx because their brainfucked kids 
edited the setting and we'll end up having to install credit card # 
generators so we can put in a sequence of digits that supposedly prove 
we're adults to authorize the downloads instead.  The more ambitious 
will just write one themselves, as the LUN formula isn't that hard a 
concept to follow.)

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

Jason S wrote:

>--- Lina Pezzella <j4rg0n@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>This thread brings up a very good point. There are
>>little children 
>>using our distribution, and they should not be
>>exposed to dirty words 
>>such as the one being disputed in this thread. There
>>are other packages 
>>that are also questionable too. "BitchX" comes to
>>mind, and "Evolution" 
>>is on the top of my die-package-die list. We
>>certainly wouldn't want 
>>little children asking about that, now would we?
>>
>>In light of the above, I suggest that in the
>>interest of being sure not 
>>to offend anyone, we remove the three aforementioned
>>packages and any 
>>others that might be offensive. It's not censorship,
>>it's decency.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks for the mocking. :(
>
>Well maybe we should have a vote if my moderating
>services are no longer needed. I could find better
>things to do with my time quite frankly. I just took
>the job because it was policy and something I could do
>in the background, and I took the heat from other
>devs. It's boring and a thankless job. I even get
>threats to my life sometimes, nevermind them sharing
>their thoughts of what they think of me. ;)
>
>Maybe it's time to do something else. 
>
>regards,
>  kutsuya (aka bit`)
>--
>gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>  
>
I'm sure you do a great job of it, and even though I've never been 
there, I'd like to thank you for doing it.  Just be careful not to get 
into the rut of relying on too many automated processes for banning people.

Perhaps you need a bot that can feed you the full text of what a person 
says so you can review it for intent.  Kick an obvious "Fsck you" 
statement to the curb, but perhaps not come down on someone who says, "I 
made an ass of myself today when I screwed up the system config in front 
of the boss today."

It's got to be hard to keep an eye on everything in the room.  Some kind 
of syntax highlighting or the previously mentioned bot (if one such 
exists or could be created) might do wonders for your moderating sanity.

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[D. Wokan]

W.Kenworthy wrote:

>Yep - would make a great south park episode, also add anything with
>create or creationism in it (and bible/koran and other religious works)
>- if evolution is on the list, so should they be.  (by the way, is
>evolution offensive to anyone other than a small but vocal group in the
>US - never heard of them active elsewhere except some loony fringe stuff
>that even they would probably disown?)
>
>BillK
>
>bunyip root # emerge -s bible creat koran
>Searching...
>[ Results for search key : bible ]
>[ Applications found : 2 ]
>
>*  app-text/biblestudy [ Masked ]
>      Latest version available: 1.0
>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>      Size of downloaded files: 345 kB
>      Homepage:    http://www.whensdinner.com/
>      Description: biblestudy software based on the sword library
>      License:     GPL-2
>
>*  app-text/bibletime
>      Latest version available: 1.4.2_pre1
>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>      Size of downloaded files: 2,073 kB
>      Homepage:    http://bibletime.sourceforge.net/
>      Description: BibleTime KDE Bible study application using the SWORD
>library.
>      License:     GPL-2
>
>
>Searching...
>[ Results for search key : creat ]
>[ Applications found : 3 ]
>
>*  dev-perl/PDF-Create
>      Latest version available: 0.01
>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>      Size of downloaded files: 12 kB
>      Homepage:    http://www.cpan.org/author/FTASSIN/PDF-Create-0.01/
>      Description: PDF::Create allows you to create PDF documents
>      License:     Artistic
>
>*  kde-base/kaudiocreator [ Masked ]
>      Latest version available: 3.4.0_rc1
>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>      Size of downloaded files: 11,727 kB
>      Homepage:    http://www.kde.org/
>      Description: KDE CD ripper and audio encoder frontend
>      License:     GPL-2
>
>*  sys-boot/bootcreator [ Masked ]
>      Latest version available: 1.1
>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>      Size of downloaded files: 17 kB
>      Homepage:    http://tbs-software.com/morgoth/projects.html
>      Description: Simple generator for Forth based BootMenu scripts for
>Pegasos machines
>      License:     GPL-2
>
>
>Searching...
>[ Results for search key : koran ]
>[ Applications found : 0 ]
>
>
>On Sun, 2005-02-27 at 20:40 -0500, Bill Davidson wrote:
>  
>
>>On 08:32 Mon 28 Feb     , Georgi Georgiev wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>It's time to add a "offendme" FEATURE similar to the "offensive" USE
>>>flag. Unsetting the FEATURE should add --exclude '*fuck*' --exclude
>>>'*bitch*' --exclude '*evoluion*', etc. to the rsync command line. Boy,
>>>I'd love to see that implemented :))
>>>
>>>Also add dev-libs/hashit to the list. The last 4 letters are way too
>>>offensive.
>>>      
>>>
>>And the first 4 letters are offensive as well. BTW, am I the only person that
>>is thinking of the South Park movie while following this thread.
>>:-)
>>
>>Bill
>>--
>>gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>>
>>    
>>
>
>--
>gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>  
>
Don't forget to exclude the neo-cons.  We don't need another console 
app.  ;)

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[tchiwam]

Hello,

About the subject...
	Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?
Well, I think it is Out of context ... I come from where people, girls 
and guys go to sauna together naked, run out and jump in the snow, hole 
in the ice, or water in (short)summer. I was about to delete the thread, 
seeing it originated from you and not even read it... but since I was in 
a happy mood and wondered how come over 100 messages came in the dev box 
alone...

After reading most of the thread let me explain what in here pisses me 
off ... and what doesn't ...

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian?
I am stuck with debian guru at my door, and our COO is a debian sold 
guy... comments like this are real good ammo pointed straight back at me.

  See,
> I'm about to add app-vim/brainfuck-syntax to the tree, 

I have NO trouble with that being in the tree, no less, no more than 
some gory game titles, it's the name of it and that's all there is to 
it. Some Spam filter might have gotten that one ...

> and I want to be
> sure that I'm not going to make any Ashcroft-worshipping
Who ?

> right wing

Don't talk about politic, it is as bad as talking about religion... Your 
post has probably been flagged and maybe even censured in some 
countries, because of this statement.

> christian rednecks
Don't ever ever EVER mix any religious, type, belief, derogatory comment 
or any of that type of manure in a international forum !! Ever, you 
don't and nobody should. This post might have been censured because of 
this comment too...

> come after me in their SUVs,

Schizo should be taken care of at your nearest mental hospital !
But I have to say I have strong opinion on this subject too, but I won't 
voice it here ! (we should have a gentoo-babbling list for that kind of 
community only but not related to gentoo itself discussion)

> toting shotguns,
Another evil, for public forum.

> waving their rebel flags and 
Well, I don't mind it too much, I might see some people having real 
rebel flags floating around and being shot at once in a while...

> proclaiming that the Earth is flat.

This is I think not really dangerous...


Why do you have to make a simple, email that could look like this:

Subject: Rude words in package names

What would people here think about brainfuck as a package name... 
upstream is http://link, more relevant info is http://... link, I know
4 people here are using it, I use it

What should we do ?

Signed your name


Into, If you say I am wrong you are a prude fellow ?

Phil
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[tchiwam]

Hello,

	Just in a comment to my own previous post, having religion related 
documents and programs in gentoo is not a problem, and I would be happy 
to see some people put the bible verses for motd or part of the Koran, 
or ... put your religion scriptures here. I just don't want anyone on a 
public forum, accusing anyone of believing in something as being a bad 
thing. Even if it is from a cult that 99.9% of the planet would think as 
stupid / worthless / bad.


Phil

PS: I know I did it too, but stop sending to dev- on both To: and CC:

>> BillK
>>
>> bunyip root # emerge -s bible creat koran
>> Searching...
>> [ Results for search key : bible ]
>> [ Applications found : 2 ]
>>
>> *  app-text/biblestudy [ Masked ]
>>      Latest version available: 1.0
>>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>>      Size of downloaded files: 345 kB
>>      Homepage:    http://www.whensdinner.com/
>>      Description: biblestudy software based on the sword library
>>      License:     GPL-2
>>
>> *  app-text/bibletime
>>      Latest version available: 1.4.2_pre1
>>      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
>>      Size of downloaded files: 2,073 kB
>>      Homepage:    http://bibletime.sourceforge.net/
>>      Description: BibleTime KDE Bible study application using the SWORD
>> library.
>>      License:     GPL-2
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 710 bytes --]

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:15:37 +0200 tchiwam <tchiwam@gentoo.org> wrote:
| > Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian?
| I am stuck with debian guru at my door, and our COO is a debian sold 
| guy... comments like this are real good ammo pointed straight back at
| me.

I can only conclude that your debian guru somehow managed to not notice
the epic flamefest they had regarding the 'hotbabe' package... "Some
people who are going to use debian anyway might use this as ammunition"
is hardly a valid complaint...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Luke-Jr]

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 06:34, D. Wokan wrote:
> Luke-Jr wrote:
> >On Sunday 27 February 2005 22:34, Stephen P. Becker wrote:
> >>While you are at it, you should also kick any person that says WTF since
> >>*everyone* knows they just said "what the fuck" in front of the whole
> >>channel.
> >
> >I'm sure that I'm not the only person who uses "WTF" as an abbreviation
> > for "what the fsck" instead of the more common acronym.
>
> You're still only one step removed as everyone with even one geek gene
> in their DNA knows you're just slipping a geek-slanged "what the fuck"

Sure... and Ciaran *really* meant to ask about prunes, not prudes...

> using an unfortunate program name abbreviation past a censorship filter
> and everyone without thinks you just made a typo saying "what the fuck"
> or did it on purpose to get past a censorship filter.

It may not be proper English (does anyone care too much for that?), but 'what 
the fsck' actually has meaning. Something along the lines of 'what [ just 
happened | are you talking about ]? sounds like something that should be run 
through fsck.' (basically, it didn't make sense).
If the alternate 'wtf' has an actual meaning, I'm not sure I know what it is. 
When I want to get the same idea as alt-'wtf' across, I generally use 'wtc'-- 
'what the crap'-- which makes no more sense than alt-'wtf' does.
-- 
Luke-Jr
Developer, Utopios
http://utopios.org/
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[tchiwam]

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:15:37 +0200 tchiwam <tchiwam@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | > Have we picked up any prudes, or are they still all using debian?
> | I am stuck with debian guru at my door, and our COO is a debian sold 
> | guy... comments like this are real good ammo pointed straight back at
> | me.
> 
> I can only conclude that your debian guru somehow managed to not notice
> the epic flamefest they had regarding the 'hotbabe' package... "Some
> people who are going to use debian anyway might use this as ammunition"
> is hardly a valid complaint...
> 

Well I don't know about debian mailing lists myself, but you seem to 
follow them pretty good ;)
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Luca Barbato]

tchiwam wrote:
> Well I don't know about debian mailing lists myself, but you seem to 
> follow them pretty good ;)

the hotbabe flame got some articles (more or less umoristic) even in 
some news sites...

Thinking about bullets...

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Developer		Gentoo/PPC Operational Manager
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Benjamin A. Collins]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 886 bytes --]

On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 11:03:07PM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Anyway, I now consider my ass to be sufficiently well covered, and I've
> yet to see any coherent objections, so I've gone ahead with the commit.
> If you don't like it, feel free to not use it.

I'm glad this thread finally died.  I've got two things to add:

<complaint>

1) There are some folks on this list who address emails to the list in
   the To: *and* the CC: fields, resulting in *lots* of duplicates.
   Highly annoying.

2) I don't mean to start a flamewar on top-v-bottom posting, but if
   you are a bottom poster as I am, it would be helpful if you would trim
   the email that prompted your response to it's relevant parts so
   that minimum scrolling is required.

</complaint>

All done.

bc
-- 
Benjamin A. Collins <bencollins@tamu.edu>
http://people.cs.tamu.edu/bcollins/

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[Benjamin A. Collins]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 679 bytes --]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 03:29:15PM -0600, Benjamin A. Collins wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2005 at 11:03:07PM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > Anyway, I now consider my ass to be sufficiently well covered, and I've
> > yet to see any coherent objections, so I've gone ahead with the commit.
> > If you don't like it, feel free to not use it.
> 
> <complaint>
> 
> 1) There are some folks on this list who address emails to the list in
>    the To: *and* the CC: fields, resulting in *lots* of duplicates.
>    Highly annoying.

Sorry to point out what's already been discussed.

bc
-- 
Benjamin A. Collins <bencollins@tamu.edu>
http://people.cs.tamu.edu/bcollins/

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Is anyone a prude?

[M. Edward (Ed) Borasky]

Yeah ... and also ... see bug # 83461. Too bad that one got closed 
before I had a chance to add my "me too" to the list of offended parties. :)

# emerge -pv choad

These are the packages that I would merge, in order:

Calculating dependencies ...done!
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/CDDB-1.12  22 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/libnet-1.16  68 kB
[ebuild  N    ] dev-perl/MailTools-1.60  42 kB
[ebuild  N    ] media-sound/choad-0.822  -offensive 7 kB

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list