Hi, everyone.

I'd like to request Infra to establish a new mailing list that would
fill in the gap between our public mailing lists and the gentoo-core
mailing list.

Name: gentoo-dev-internal

Topic: technical discussions between active Gentoo contributors

Restrictions:

- public (open subscription), initially we may optionally copy all
subscribers from gentoo-dev so that they do not miss discussion,

- archived,

- but posting restricted to opt-in member group.

Initially, the posting group would include active Gentoo developers
only. Afterwards, we will deploy a small moderator team whose purpose
would be controlling access to the list -- including both adding new
members on request and removing existing members (including developers)
if they misbehave.

I don't think we need to precisely define the rules for admitting new
members. I think the exact procedure would be at moderators' discretion
and would depend on the current 'health' of candidates -- i.e. if things
go calm they may just admit on request, and if people start abusing this
they will force explicit moderation before whitelisting.


Rationale
=========

The purpose of gentoo-dev is to allow technical discussion between
contributors to Gentoo, especially including making it possible for
developers to send RFCs and discuss their ideas.

Sadly, it is not uncommon for threads on that mailing list to turn into
trollfests, get deranged or hijacked into completely different topics.
Things are so bad that the mailing list stops serving its purpose. It
involves a number of consequences:

a. The developers lose time on the mailing lists instead of using it for
constructive purposes. Even skimming through those mails in search of
something remotely relevant is time-consuming.

b. The developers and contributors become discouraged and unsubscribe
from the mailing list. As a result, audience for reviews and RFCs
becomes smaller and even less focused on the topic.

c. The developers become discouraged and stop sending their ideas.
Either they do less, use another media or work in complete isolation
from other community members.

d. Eventually, the developers become tired of the persisting issues
and they retire (yes, it's a fact).

Other ideas on solving those issues were pretty much rejected already:

1. Bans on persisting violators were rejected as they are easily worked
around via subscribing from another e-mail address, and causing more
noise than the original issue.

2. Full-scale moderation of mail on gentoo-dev was rejected because of
technical limitations and the resulting high level of effort in handling
the moderation, plus the social effect.

3. Making gentoo-dev@ opt-in (like the suggested new list) would make it
much harder for users to contribute ideas, and would inevitably
discourage some of the users from writing.

All that considered, establishing a second mailing list with different
characteristic seems like a reasonable solution. In particular:

A. It gives a wider choice of tools for developers (and privileged
contributors) -- they can choose either the open or restricted mailing
list depending on the type of requested feedback.

B. The gentoo-dev mailing list is still open for power users
and contributors to submit their own ideas, and with no moderation
the discussion can proceed naturally.

C. The cost of moderation should be relatively low, and the methods can
be dynamically adjusted to fit the needs. In particular, good behavior
on gentoo-dev can be used to grant access to gentoo-dev-internal without
further requirements.

D. The restricted mailing list should be resilient to ban evasion since
the access is opt-in, and the moderators team can enforce direct
moderation of new members if there is a considerable risk.

Your comments?

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny