[gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Hi everyone, 

first of all, I'm not really an expert in this stuff, so feel free to tell me 
about any mis-assumptions...

As far as I can see, we have two global useflags:
avahi - Add avahi/Zeroconf support
zeroconf - Support for DNS Service Discovery (DNS-SD)

"Zeroconf" describes a service autodiscovery and autoconfiguration standard, 
see [1]. Avahi is the implementation of that standard which we have in the 
portage tree [2]. Other implementations are mDNSResponder (which was in the 
tree some time ago but got kicked out) and Apple's Bonjour (which never was in 
the tree and probably never will be).

I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf" anywhere.

Opinions?

Cheers, 
Andreas


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_configuration_networking
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_%28software%29

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

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Le lundi 01 avril 2013 à 23:58 +0200, Andreas K. Huettel a écrit :
> 
> Hi everyone, 
> 
> first of all, I'm not really an expert in this stuff, so feel free to tell me 
> about any mis-assumptions...
> 
> As far as I can see, we have two global useflags:
> avahi - Add avahi/Zeroconf support
> zeroconf - Support for DNS Service Discovery (DNS-SD)
> 
> "Zeroconf" describes a service autodiscovery and autoconfiguration standard, 
> see [1]. Avahi is the implementation of that standard which we have in the 
> portage tree [2]. Other implementations are mDNSResponder (which was in the 
> tree some time ago but got kicked out) and Apple's Bonjour (which never was in 
> the tree and probably never will be).
> 
> I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf" anywhere.
> 
> Opinions?

I thought this discussion was over last time it came around.

iirc the conclusion was what you wrote, use zeroconf unless there is a
special reason (none afaik in tree).

-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Am Dienstag, 2. April 2013, 00:16:03 schrieb Gilles Dartiguelongue:
> Le lundi 01 avril 2013 à 23:58 +0200, Andreas K. Huettel a écrit :
> > "Zeroconf" describes a service autodiscovery and autoconfiguration
> > standard, see [1]. Avahi is the implementation of that standard which we
> > have in the portage tree [2]. Other implementations are mDNSResponder
> > (which was in the tree some time ago but got kicked out) and Apple's
> > Bonjour (which never was in the tree and probably never will be).
> > 
> > I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf"
> > anywhere.
> > 
> > Opinions?
> 
> I thought this discussion was over last time it came around.
> 
> iirc the conclusion was what you wrote, use zeroconf unless there is a
> special reason (none afaik in tree).

Heh. Indeed... see 
http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=124578830315474

Seems like just noone actually did the work.

Below is the list of ebuilds declaring a use-flag "avahi". May I respectfully 
suggest you all start sorting this out then? :) 

As usual, be careful with use dependencies bla bla...

I'll start with my own stuff (cups & cups-filters, kinda).

app-crypt/seahorse-2.32.0
app-crypt/seahorse-3.6.3
app-crypt/seahorse-3.8.0
app-editors/gobby-0.4.11
app-editors/gobby-0.4.13
app-editors/gobby-0.4.8
app-editors/gobby-0.4.94
app-emulation/libvirt-1.0.0
app-emulation/libvirt-1.0.2-r2
app-emulation/libvirt-1.0.3-r1
app-emulation/libvirt-1.0.3-r2
app-emulation/libvirt-9999
dev-python/kaa-base-0.6.0
gnome-base/gnome-vfs-2.24.4-r1
gnome-base/gvfs-1.12.3
gnome-base/gvfs-1.12.3-r1
gnome-base/gvfs-1.14.2
gnome-base/gvfs-1.16.0
gnome-base/libgdu-3.0.2
media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.20-r3
media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.21-r1
media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.22-r1
media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.22-r2
media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.23
media-gfx/sane-backends-1.0.23-r1
media-plugins/gmpc-avahi-11.8.16
media-sound/pulseaudio-1.1-r1
media-sound/pulseaudio-2.1-r1
media-sound/pulseaudio-3.0
media-sound/pulseaudio-9999
media-sound/xmms2-0.7-r2
media-sound/xmms2-0.7-r3
media-sound/xmms2-0.8-r1
media-tv/tvheadend-2.12
media-tv/tvheadend-3.2
media-tv/xbmc-11.0
media-tv/xbmc-11.0-r1
media-tv/xbmc-12.0
media-tv/xbmc-12.1
media-tv/xbmc-9999
media-video/vlc-2.0.3
media-video/vlc-2.0.5
media-video/vlc-2.0.9999
media-video/vlc-9999
net-fs/netatalk-2.2.1-r3
net-fs/netatalk-2.2.3
net-fs/netatalk-3.0
net-fs/netatalk-3.0.1
net-fs/netatalk-3.0.2
net-fs/netatalk-3.0.2-r2
net-fs/samba-3.5.15
net-fs/samba-3.5.21
net-fs/samba-3.6.12
net-fs/samba-3.6.13
net-fs/samba-3.6.9
net-fs/samba-4.0.2
net-fs/samba-4.0.3
net-fs/samba-4.0.4
net-im/gajim-0.15.2-r3
net-im/gajim-0.15.2-r4
net-im/gajim-0.15.3
net-im/gajim-0.15.3-r1
net-libs/libinfinity-0.5.2
net-libs/libinfinity-0.5.3
net-libs/obby-0.4.6-r1
net-libs/obby-0.4.8
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.4.0-r6
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.6.4
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.6.4-r1
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.7.995
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.8.0
net-misc/networkmanager-9999
net-misc/remmina-1.0.0_p20120309
net-misc/remmina-1.0.0_p20121004
net-misc/remmina-9999
net-misc/sobby-0.4.7
net-misc/sobby-0.4.8
net-misc/vinagre-2.30.3
net-misc/vinagre-3.6.2
net-misc/vinagre-3.8.0
net-misc/vino-2.32.2-r1
net-misc/vino-3.6.2-r1
net-misc/vino-3.8.0
net-nds/lat-1.2.3
net-print/cups-1.5.2-r4
net-print/cups-1.5.3
net-print/cups-1.6.1
net-print/cups-1.6.2
net-print/cups-9999
net-print/cups-filters-1.0.29-r1
net-print/cups-filters-1.0.30
net-print/cups-filters-9999-r1
net-voip/ekiga-2.0.12
net-voip/ekiga-3.2.7
net-voip/ekiga-4.0.0-r1
sci-physics/root-5.32.03-r2
sci-physics/root-5.32.04
sci-physics/root-5.34.05
sys-apps/gnome-disk-utility-2.32.1-r1
sys-devel/distcc-3.0-r4
sys-devel/distcc-3.1-r5
sys-devel/distcc-3.1-r6
sys-devel/distcc-3.1-r7
sys-devel/distcc-3.2_rc1
sys-power/nut-2.6.3
sys-power/nut-2.6.5
www-client/epiphany-2.30.6-r1
x11-misc/x11vnc-0.9.13
x11-misc/x11vnc-0.9.13-r1

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Pacho Ramos]

El mar, 02-04-2013 a las 00:42 +0200, Andreas K. Huettel escribió:
[...]

I will try to remember the issue, but not sure if probably a bug or a
tracker bug would be better to prevent this from being forgotten
again :/

Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Am Dienstag, 2. April 2013, 21:46:08 schrieb Pacho Ramos:
> El mar, 02-04-2013 a las 00:42 +0200, Andreas K. Huettel escribió:
> [...]
> 
> I will try to remember the issue, but not sure if probably a bug or a
> tracker bug would be better to prevent this from being forgotten
> again :/


Ah don't worry I'll file one eventually. Just giving a kick here first... :)

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn]

Andreas K. Huettel schrieb:

> Avahi is the implementation of that standard which we have in the 
> portage tree [2]. Other implementations are mDNSResponder (which was in
> the tree some time ago but got kicked out) and Apple's Bonjour (which
> never was in the tree and probably never will be).

Parts of zeroconf (namely IPv4LL) are also implemented by dhcpcd and other
software without using avahi.

> I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf"
> anywhere.

Sounds good. Do you think the same should apply to non-mDNS/DNS-SD based
zeroconf like UPnP/SSDP?


Best regards,
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn

Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Am Dienstag, 2. April 2013, 00:27:59 schrieb Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn:
> > I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf"
> > anywhere.
> 
> Sounds good. Do you think the same should apply to non-mDNS/DNS-SD based
> zeroconf like UPnP/SSDP?

No idea to be honest... :| opinions?

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Alex Xu]

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Kill zeroconf and use "dnssd", "upnp", "ssdp". Problem solved?

On 01/04/13 06:43 PM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 2. April 2013, 00:27:59 schrieb Chí-Thanh Christopher
> Nguyễn:
>>> I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use
>>> "zeroconf" anywhere.
>> 
>> Sounds good. Do you think the same should apply to
>> non-mDNS/DNS-SD based zeroconf like UPnP/SSDP?
> 
> No idea to be honest... :| opinions?
> 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Michael Mol]

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On 04/01/2013 10:47 PM, Alex Xu wrote:
> Kill zeroconf and use "dnssd", "upnp", "ssdp". Problem solved?

I very much like the approach in principle, though. Digging briefly into
Wikipedia[1], UPnP has several components:

* AutoIP (IPv4LL)
* SSDP (So, a separate "ssdp" USE flag may not be necessary)
* SOAP (If I read this correctly, this is the encoding of its RPC
  mechanism)
* GENA (A pub/sup architecture)

(For those that read the link, I'm obviously leaving out the
'Description' section...I don't know what that would be called, really.)

I don't know enough about real-world use of UPnP to say which of these
components are most fruitfully separated out of UPnP, USE-wise. If I had
to guess, I'd probably suggest:

* Break out SSDP and AutoIP,
* Have UPnP imply SOAP and GENA
* Have UPnP depend on the enabling of SSDP and AutoIP.

Or tie all of it into a single USE flag and be left with 'upnp' and 'ssdp'.



[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Universal_Plug_and_Play&oldid=543684744#Protocol


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Arun Raghavan]

On 2 April 2013 08:17, Alex Xu <alex_y_xu@yahoo.ca> wrote:
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>
> Kill zeroconf and use "dnssd", "upnp", "ssdp". Problem solved?

I'm not too enthusiastic about that.

USE=zeroconf on pulseaudio is a bit easier to understand than
USE=ssdp, for example.

--
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Michał Górny]

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On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 00:43:31 +0200
"Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Am Dienstag, 2. April 2013, 00:27:59 schrieb Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn:
> > > I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf"
> > > anywhere.
> > 
> > Sounds good. Do you think the same should apply to non-mDNS/DNS-SD based
> > zeroconf like UPnP/SSDP?
> 
> No idea to be honest... :| opinions?

The flags should be practical. I have no use for DNS-SD and other
magical junk, yet use UPnP/IGD for port forwarding. The flags should
let me just enable just that without pulling all other possible
variants I won't use.

That said, USE=upnp was cleaned up a while ago. I don't think it should
be integrated with zeroconf.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Global useflags zeroconf and avahi

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

Le mardi 02 avril 2013 à 09:43 +0200, Michał Górny a écrit :
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 00:43:31 +0200
> "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > Am Dienstag, 2. April 2013, 00:27:59 schrieb Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn:
> > > > I would like to suggest unifying use-flag usage, and use "zeroconf"
> > > > anywhere.
> > > 
> > > Sounds good. Do you think the same should apply to non-mDNS/DNS-SD based
> > > zeroconf like UPnP/SSDP?
> > 
> > No idea to be honest... :| opinions?
> 
> The flags should be practical. I have no use for DNS-SD and other
> magical junk, yet use UPnP/IGD for port forwarding. The flags should
> let me just enable just that without pulling all other possible
> variants I won't use.
> 
> That said, USE=upnp was cleaned up a while ago. I don't think it should
> be integrated with zeroconf.

Yeah I don't think it should be merged into zeroconf even though it
shares some of its technical base.

Imho, zeroconf == dnssd/mdns & ipv4ll and upnp/upnp-av are as described
in use.desc

-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo