From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RPbSv-0004Ab-JT for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:55:25 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 48DB721C040; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:54:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A063521C02B for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:54:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (abtk108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.8.156.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: aidecoe) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1566E1B400D; Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:54:21 +0000 (UTC) From: =?utf-8?q?Amadeusz_=C5=BBo=C5=82nowski?= To: Thomas Sachau Cc: gentoo-dev In-reply-to: <4EBFCD5D.3080807@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] have portage be quiet by default References: <4EB4FA98.3080201@gentoo.org> <4EBD42EE.4060104@gentoo.org> <4EBEF208.5060500@gentoo.org> <201111121840.16686.vapier@gentoo.org> <4EBFBA75.3030500@gentoo.org> <1321188262-sup-4513@raeviah> <4EBFCD5D.3080807@gentoo.org> Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:54:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1321194595-sup-8983@raeviah> User-Agent: Sup/git Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-1321196055-419775-683-5180-2-=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 1ed9b8df-4de5-48e6-bb58-7a1c41246e19 X-Archives-Hash: 587d2d0d86a43257643dd70773e3afb8 --=-1321196055-419775-683-5180-2-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excerpts from Thomas Sachau's message of 2011-11-13 14:59:57 +0100: > How is that an argument for default quiet build? It is exactly the > same argument against default quiet build. If someone does not care, > he does not care about the output being verbose or not, so no need to > change a default for him. As I have written below, information about overall process is more valuable than some gmake rubbish (to the user) output which slows down build time. And having that shinny human readable output gives actually an information to the reader. > And what does a number of users knowing about an option have to do > with a default setting? More user-friendly options should be default, not developer-friendly. The discussion started with problem, that build.log could be more verbose, which will clutter users' screen even more. > You expect people to manually check the build.log just to see, where > it hangs? I prefer checking the console, there i can see it directly > and dont have to check for the path of the current build.log and then > have to additionally open it manually. So your "no harm" is plain > wrong, since it takes me more time for doing the same thing as before, > while i still see no benefit for the change of the default. If you need to watch build output, change defaults. Defaults are for less experienced users, not for us developers or power users. > > But --quiet-build=3Dy actually gives more useful and handy info: what= > > is a total progress. Which user cares about which module is > > actually being compiled? He/she cares more which package out of > > total is being compiled at the moment. > = > If someone does not care about the current state of a compile, he wont > care about the total state either. Build output hardly ever says about current state of a compile. If you can tell from the output how much is left for example for firefox - respect. > Beside the point, that you can see the total state in the terminal bar > (i hope, i got the right name for that thing). This not always work. -- = Amadeusz =C5=BBo=C5=82nowski --=-1321196055-419775-683-5180-2-= Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOv9oXAAoJEPATRTHh2/q1MBIH/38fO5CCB3kLDKMPJKtPDpR+ zt6xRfzan/LgZp4cXwbdJ+Abt7GVx8DKerifDdpCZ+2W9Nfabn2oeXOeJlJynBTY 3S4rn7VzGQkocFSSkvtqamPqEhwG8bx0hs4nDiRXmfPQNxAAEvg0FfKAAu6ZJUkw 6cquXLtqGi/C+EZDrXFrd87FAzhoMOz+tUb2JzGil/jE19ujelm5dLkSaO3IMLM2 60UinqvheFNnLkJN5nTOu5Sz+pY/ToGkjgZoYHTmX5UfROjACz92scRjrB6GtYC5 mNaeIydGosqGjTBZ404YJzIB/zY1rUHd2s/gF1UKkIUCqDqHMBM2YAFxT2M/rYs= =fk6N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-1321196055-419775-683-5180-2-=--