From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NymVv-0004Cl-2L for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:38:51 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F469E0ADD; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:38:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E17E0AC0 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:38:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (100-163.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch [83.78.163.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AC51B40DB for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:38:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] More reliable hiding preserved libraries From: Tiziano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <201004050816.42409.reavertm@gmail.com> References: <201004031238.18500.reavertm@gmail.com> <201004032305.41374.reavertm@gmail.com> <1270395197.1230.89.camel@localhost> <201004050816.42409.reavertm@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha1"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-vf8TjiEXTLSv0YMoUByu" Organization: Gentoo Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 15:38:38 +0200 Message-ID: <1270474718.30670.16.camel@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3.1 X-Archives-Salt: 0d7c2264-e598-4f1a-ac76-d4a21df5d285 X-Archives-Hash: 8f7de7f3b90e256a571b2e7e52197509 --=-vf8TjiEXTLSv0YMoUByu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Montag, den 05.04.2010, 08:16 +0200 schrieb Maciej Mrozowski: > On Sunday 04 of April 2010 17:33:17 Tiziano M=C3=BCller wrote: >=20 > >> Besides I=20 > >> can already imagine PMS-related discussion regarding "make the PMs che= ck=20 > for rdeps per default before unmerging things" - thx but no thx. > > This is not related to PMS. Paludis for example does it already with th= e > > current EAPIs. > So how does Paludis handle those issues? > (Read my comments about "emerge" atomicy below) >=20 > > It is a problem which can _only_ be solved at the PM level. You have to > > tell the PM when API breakages happen. Either by slotting the lib or by > > something else. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > This is important - as slotting is not a practical solution. What is it t= hen? >=20 > > Using guesswork to determine whether or not a library > > should be removed may be a temporary solution. Remember: you're > > partially ignoring a users request since he wanted the package to be > > removed - and we all know how things like "protect the user from > > himself" end up. >=20 > Unconditionally removing libraries (instead of preserving them) and makin= g=20 > their reverse runtime dependencies reinstalled is unacceptable because=20 > "emerge" process involving multiple packages is not atomic. Simple as tha= t. A side mark: preserving libs may work in a number of cases, but there are a lot of (possible) examples where the rdeps (and/or the preserved libs) are nevertheless broken or become useless (think of: ui-files, plugins, dlopen'ed libs, etc.). Please forget your atomicity. It's a really nice idea (and I'd like to see it too) but not possible now or in the near future. > Is this what you suggest? Correct me if I'm wrong: > 1. Users wants to uninstall or reinstall package, we let him do it provid= ed=20 > reverse runtime dependencies are satisfied afterwards. Let's say he wants= to=20 > upgrade expat. > 2. Expat SOVERSION changed meanwhile but package was not SLOTtted and run= time=20 > reverse deps will still be satisfied when we upgrade. > 3. Expat has been upgraded sucessfully, > 4a. "emerge" discovers reverse runtime dependencies are broken and it sta= rts=20 > to rebuild them, then it bails out due to error ld: libexpat.so. not= =20 > found. Because step 3 cannot be rolled back (no atomicy) - game over. > or In that case you most probably have a problem in your dep-tree (either unspecified deps or a dep-resolver bug) --=20 Tiziano M=C3=BCller Gentoo Linux Developer Areas of responsibility: Samba, PostgreSQL, CPP, Python, sysadmin, GLEP Editor E-Mail : dev-zero@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : F327 283A E769 2E36 18D5 4DE2 1B05 6A63 AE9C 1E30 --=-vf8TjiEXTLSv0YMoUByu Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIKbjCCBTMw ggMboAMCAQICAwg/VjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQL ExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3Jp dHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xMDAyMjIxMDQzMzBaFw0x MjAyMjIxMDQzMzBaMD0xFzAVBgNVBAMUDlRpemlhbm8gTfxsbGVyMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhNk 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