From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NyRpR-00048w-6z for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 15:33:37 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FBBDE0B68; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 15:33:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6703DE0B58 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 15:33:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (238-143.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch [83.79.143.238]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3450E1B406D for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 15:33:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] More reliable hiding preserved libraries From: Tiziano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <201004032305.41374.reavertm@gmail.com> References: <201004031238.18500.reavertm@gmail.com> <1270320703.1230.11.camel@localhost> <201004032305.41374.reavertm@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha1"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-rpRASont8Fa/fWhkSO44" Organization: Gentoo Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 17:33:17 +0200 Message-ID: <1270395197.1230.89.camel@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3.1 X-Archives-Salt: 89b94938-6a3b-48a2-8ea8-a11034f92fe0 X-Archives-Hash: 03367536610e2478b5ce02aeacf84c84 --=-rpRASont8Fa/fWhkSO44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Samstag, den 03.04.2010, 23:05 +0200 schrieb Maciej Mrozowski: > On Saturday 03 of April 2010 14:16:14 Fabian Groffen wrote: > > Shouldn't we fix that buildsystem then? Do you have an example of a > > package/buildsystem that does that? > "We" already do, the thing is that maybe we don't have to. > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D240323 > From top of my head: python having issues with sys-libs/db as well as som= e=20 > packages with readline. > =20 > > > It would indeed. Now when I think about it, moving stuff to preserved > > > library dir could be just done - provided it's possible - along with > > > fixing/setting DT_RPATH's in reverse runtime dependencies. This way n= o > > > system-wide LIBRARY_PATH's would be necessary. > > > Is it possible? Mike? > > No, unless you somehow make sure you reserve space for this, by e.g. > > setting a bogus rpath entry at buildtime. If you want to go that route= , > > you probably want to look at the Prefix' binutils-config wrapper that > > already calls the linker with added rpath arguments. Afterwards you ca= n > > use chrpath to set it to the correct location. Will get messy with the > > vdb though, but if Portage's doing it, it can probably be dealt with. > Sounds messy indeed, what about hardened/SELinux/AppArmor/whatever - do t= hey=20 > allow such DT_RPATH operations? It should be probably also restricted for= =20 > binary-only packages. >=20 > On Saturday 03 of April 2010 20:51:43 Tiziano M=C3=BCller wrote: > > Don't fix the hack. Remove the preserve libs "feature", make the PMs > > check for rdeps per default before unmerging things. > This will only prevent creating orphans of uninstalled libraries, what ab= out=20 > upgraded ones when SOVERSION has been bumped (the most common case)? I addressed this in the next phrase. > Besides I=20 > can already imagine PMS-related discussion regarding "make the PMs check = for=20 > rdeps per default before unmerging things" - thx but no thx. This is not related to PMS. Paludis for example does it already with the current EAPIs. >=20 > > Slot libraries where needed, slot dep operators (EAPI 4) will help. > Again, you suggest to SLOT every library that happened to bump SOVERSION.= It's=20 > unrealistic. Besides library should be slotted when it's API changes, for= =20 > source based distributions it's not needed for ABI changes - let's not co= nfuse=20 > those two. Also excessive slotting increases probability of breaking libr= ary=20 > discovery mechanisms in various build systems (not everyone uses pkg-conf= ig). I know that slotting can cause problems. But forcing build systems to use specific versions of libraries is much easier than "shadowing" libraries present in library search dirs, especially when those libs are not even tracked by the PM. >=20 > > And if that doesn't work out we need a separate var to give the PM a hi= nt=20 > when API/ABI breakages happen (such that the PM knows when to re-install = the=20 > rev deps). > It needs PMS amended and thus GLEP. Wrong, we don't have GLEPs for >90% of the PMS changes going into EAPI-3 or 4. > Please submit a GLEP item for this if you=20 > see it fit. > Anyway, as explained in OT, it's not a problem of package manager depende= ncies=20 > system but issue with broken/not smart build systems - no dependency tree= =20 > magic will solve this issue. It is a problem which can _only_ be solved at the PM level. You have to tell the PM when API breakages happen. Either by slotting the lib or by something else. Using guesswork to determine whether or not a library should be removed may be a temporary solution. Remember: you're partially ignoring a users request since he wanted the package to be removed - and we all know how things like "protect the user from himself" end up. --=20 Tiziano M=C3=BCller Gentoo Linux Developer Areas of responsibility: Samba, PostgreSQL, CPP, Python, sysadmin, GLEP Editor E-Mail : dev-zero@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : F327 283A E769 2E36 18D5 4DE2 1B05 6A63 AE9C 1E30 --=-rpRASont8Fa/fWhkSO44 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIKbjCCBTMw ggMboAMCAQICAwg/VjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQL ExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3Jp dHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xMDAyMjIxMDQzMzBaFw0x MjAyMjIxMDQzMzBaMD0xFzAVBgNVBAMUDlRpemlhbm8gTfxsbGVyMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhNk ZXYtemVyb0BnZW50b28ub3JnMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA1LnPwwQ2 3O3zXpqQ2p8WtdpOnQDeyUja0gn+BSULJ8uZ6ro6Xg9cUZdOVStm6SLjAU82fSVsEsvDw1u2plf1 qTtLkXRtnyaJjFhGC27/MR/tQqOR5eC2qWbwQuB2B+wS/9hHoqjfLAIVksqwDfFjCNz1QEj+EyAl O5LuwRWs7Cwmk37wXkaCW6vEzmATJhN0cBXcR5rKJv0dmvLE66NX5MqXfQQ4kSFMSIaFbhc/+Vix b92hF+KhfG8C0PMUFvCzToFYgU+uEL9kvmUfa8MkVzaicWmsnycZ+aywZrBfgJqB50FCANSq2gQ1 8KnajvMc3lAY5njvJ9S1i0SZQGw7hwIDAQABo4H/MIH8MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwVgYJYIZIAYb4 QgENBEkWR1RvIGdldCB5b3VyIG93biBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBmb3IgRlJFRSBoZWFkIG92ZXIgdG8g aHR0cDovL3d3dy5DQWNlcnQub3JnMEAGA1UdJQQ5MDcGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAgYKKwYB BAGCNwoDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDAwYJYIZIAYb4QgQBMDIGCCsGAQUFBwEBBCYwJDAiBggrBgEFBQcw AYYWaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeBgNVHREEFzAVgRNkZXYtemVyb0BnZW50b28ub3Jn MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQCu3CflSuep7/s1rJnx/DOwVPIPzytTmfJ++L543zniENTsOrvB MGKv0U0QXcRxnZrV5lboJ2V6VK7lEUSGl54fiaM+ixxv+L2r1FJYkulctQIcJElb1Y2D0tWVmcpF NPG9dCSnmYsZlK3YMJsieYD1ifWNs3achZFxIYBMapo4vTILS8NhD8OyfZEefFTRthTDn25dlhBK qmTZJZqA2PEpy5BIJ+T0Ico7IaoBWmBSsFeJ1ytGAFtFTpWMwdrbSgl9tR2gTHtheC0il7cE6Ets F4h3NeMkDjCmuo8SsmivLh0baw2aZPz4ka3iFjMFA6ruts7yuOj03XTwWpCC7XthexysmcafO72Y QRXuddKeCbFNROJ7DBy5kwcXly3e/lgaPpGXV75VU1LeTPmVRl6tI2jaQMjSWiMpjM0hFm2q/mCQ Kiz6/+4La9aN5J7ov5X+RMbpPcKGo8q3hrInD6rqGRCPi/7Md5c0WebwYFnAB34S7RJS4y6bR6hl l1pNQcOE6heDf1EkzkXw88Z/BvxLBgE8EwSL5GD5ZA27udAlgWsc4NVEx/lheDdc1vPb+C45OFkb ZsBne4wijsNccZlVtqpkm++6QII6H2G9a8Pef+/5An+3jW7qNfYRDFGa+uGqBDD6yUkwTIOhajtl qx5ZQU2z5g5CBKqOuA74CYRR7TCCBTMwggMboAMCAQICAwg/VjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAw DgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMT GUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0 Lm9yZzAeFw0xMDAyMjIxMDQzMzBaFw0xMjAyMjIxMDQzMzBaMD0xFzAVBgNVBAMUDlRpemlhbm8g TfxsbGVyMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhNkZXYtemVyb0BnZW50b28ub3JnMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA1LnPwwQ23O3zXpqQ2p8WtdpOnQDeyUja0gn+BSULJ8uZ6ro6Xg9c UZdOVStm6SLjAU82fSVsEsvDw1u2plf1qTtLkXRtnyaJjFhGC27/MR/tQqOR5eC2qWbwQuB2B+wS /9hHoqjfLAIVksqwDfFjCNz1QEj+EyAlO5LuwRWs7Cwmk37wXkaCW6vEzmATJhN0cBXcR5rKJv0d mvLE66NX5MqXfQQ4kSFMSIaFbhc/+Vixb92hF+KhfG8C0PMUFvCzToFYgU+uEL9kvmUfa8MkVzai cWmsnycZ+aywZrBfgJqB50FCANSq2gQ18KnajvMc3lAY5njvJ9S1i0SZQGw7hwIDAQABo4H/MIH8 MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwVgYJYIZIAYb4QgENBEkWR1RvIGdldCB5b3VyIG93biBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0 ZSBmb3IgRlJFRSBoZWFkIG92ZXIgdG8gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5DQWNlcnQub3JnMEAGA1UdJQQ5MDcG CCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAgYKKwYBBAGCNwoDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDAwYJYIZIAYb4QgQBMDIG CCsGAQUFBwEBBCYwJDAiBggrBgEFBQcwAYYWaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeBgNVHREE FzAVgRNkZXYtemVyb0BnZW50b28ub3JnMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQCu3CflSuep7/s1rJnx /DOwVPIPzytTmfJ++L543zniENTsOrvBMGKv0U0QXcRxnZrV5lboJ2V6VK7lEUSGl54fiaM+ixxv +L2r1FJYkulctQIcJElb1Y2D0tWVmcpFNPG9dCSnmYsZlK3YMJsieYD1ifWNs3achZFxIYBMapo4 vTILS8NhD8OyfZEefFTRthTDn25dlhBKqmTZJZqA2PEpy5BIJ+T0Ico7IaoBWmBSsFeJ1ytGAFtF TpWMwdrbSgl9tR2gTHtheC0il7cE6EtsF4h3NeMkDjCmuo8SsmivLh0baw2aZPz4ka3iFjMFA6ru ts7yuOj03XTwWpCC7XthexysmcafO72YQRXuddKeCbFNROJ7DBy5kwcXly3e/lgaPpGXV75VU1Le TPmVRl6tI2jaQMjSWiMpjM0hFm2q/mCQKiz6/+4La9aN5J7ov5X+RMbpPcKGo8q3hrInD6rqGRCP i/7Md5c0WebwYFnAB34S7RJS4y6bR6hll1pNQcOE6heDf1EkzkXw88Z/BvxLBgE8EwSL5GD5ZA27 udAlgWsc4NVEx/lheDdc1vPb+C45OFkbZsBne4wijsNccZlVtqpkm++6QII6H2G9a8Pef+/5An+3 jW7qNfYRDFGa+uGqBDD6yUkwTIOhajtlqx5ZQU2z5g5CBKqOuA74CYRR7TGCAzMwggMvAgEBMIGA MHkxEDAOBgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAG A1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBj YWNlcnQub3JnAgMIP1YwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAYcwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAc BgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTAwNDA0MTUzMzE3WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQU/QVBtJNMMZvT7Itm pGSA4961YRAwgZEGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBgzCBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQL ExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3Jp dHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDCD9WMIGTBgsqhkiG9w0BCRAC CzGBg6CBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5v cmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1 cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDCD9WMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAJAtCFzOU6Tj8d1KgfJM41CO yopyhQcTrY/rMJYj+77VtDr+3bPyDIN2u1nA5AMlsQdlqY3zgI3wyPcYPzS17ZyfRZK3otyk9Sl1 gkKAI04/41X7Ildy3Js+AW7IhKh2J1YyWSO98qtHAknSLWZybVdMRhWIyZVyHM1L7ouZ7h6iFiQr 3hbdMewYYwl5oiUyyiEl+PSpgf1mDcj6fUjHsVtdHYAW3bhcbwnC873/E4Ztf5spGFjThOhxkIeA JOiJD3ekFKa9HcnmMZcD21BMaj8RB42sYSTcMauF/wNvwa2kYd9PoL5t4O3Q0nezZXeN4WyDfRuM 1Ju75CtL/Ac/ZscAAAAAAAA= --=-rpRASont8Fa/fWhkSO44--