From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MKxdO-0005w4-7i for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:53:42 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 79F33E062B; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:53:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.tmcs.ch (113.245.131.213.static.inetbone.net [213.131.245.113]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03165E062B for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:53:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (21-232.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch [85.1.232.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.tmcs.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22B1769931F for ; Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:53:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] 2009 Council Elections From: Tiziano =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <1246203606.3656.1@NeddySeagoon> References: <1246203606.3656.1@NeddySeagoon> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha1"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-jehjLCb8/VhxI+jJV+ym" Organization: Gentoo Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:53:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1246208018.19613.168.camel@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.2 X-Archives-Salt: 1d281e8d-3209-4d01-858a-84963cde51c2 X-Archives-Hash: 18f239158df56f1528e7c090e544225a --=-jehjLCb8/VhxI+jJV+ym Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-CppLpL2seXM65SQyzos/" --=-CppLpL2seXM65SQyzos/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sonntag, den 28.06.2009, 16:40 +0100 schrieb Roy Bamford: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > On 2009.06.28 10:00, Tiziano M=C3=BCller wrote: > > Am Freitag, den 26.06.2009, 07:15 -0600 schrieb Denis Dupeyron: > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Ben de Groot > > wrote: > > > > To appoint as proxy for a council meeting someone who has been > > booted > > > > from Gentoo is a clear lapse of judgement, and would in my eyes > > > > disqualify the involved council member from functioning in that > > position. > > >=20 > > > As Petteri noted it's not obvious that GLEP39 disallows choosing a > > > non-dev as proxy for a council meeting. I haven't talked to=20 > > Tiziano, > > > and I don't know what he had in mind when he chose ciaranm as his > > > proxy, but I'd be ready to believe part of it was that he wanted to > > > experiment. > > Well, it was surely not an experiment to see whether someone must be=20 > > a > > dev or not to be a proxy. Based on GLEP 39 it was fairly clear to me > > this must not be the case and I at least expected the council to > > accept > > him (or any other non-dev) at least for that meeting. > >=20 > [snip] > > --=20 > > Tiziano M=C3=BCller > > Gentoo Linux Developer, Council Member > > Areas of responsibility: > > Samba, PostgreSQL, CPP, Python, sysadmin, GLEP Editor > > E-Mail : dev-zero@gentoo.org > > GnuPG FP : F327 283A E769 2E36 18D5 4DE2 1B05 6A63 AE9C 1E30 > >=20 >=20 > Its my opinion that the concept of proxies in council meetings is=20 > fatally flawed. =20 As I stated in at least one mail before (and in countless discussions on IRC): I'd like to see the proxy-concept being removed since it is flawed as you point out below and replaced with something like "a council member may miss N meetings with M of them without prior notice" And then remove that slacker mark as well and just say: "if you miss more than those N meetings or miss M meetings without prior notice you get kicked". And for those who like the slacker mark to see who has missed a lot of meetings or missed meetings repeatedly we could have a statistics summary on proj/en/council with the number of missed meetings per member. Cheers, Tiziano > 1. The brief (if any) that the proxy is given by the council member=20 > being proxied is never made public.=20 >=20 > 2. Its never clear if the proxy is voting as instructed by the council=20 > member or as they see fit at the time. >=20 > What if an entire meeting and therefore any votes were staffed by=20 > entirely by non gentoo developer proxies? > Unlikely, but perfectly possible under GLEP39. Would Gentoo feel bound=20 > by decisions that such a meeting reached? >=20 > Oh. Don't talk about 'common sense' GLEP39 does not mention it, so it=20 > doesn't count ... and its much rarer than you may think. >=20 > Lastly, as a trustee and partly legally responsible for decisions made=20 > on behalf of Gentoo, I am uneasy with the concept of non developers=20 > making those decisions. Now reread my 'what if' above with that=20 > liability in mind. >=20 > Note: Other trustees may have a different view of the world >=20 > - --=20 > Regards, >=20 > Roy Bamford > (NeddySeagoon) a member of > gentoo-ops > forum-mods > treecleaners > trustees > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) >=20 > iEYEARECAAYFAkpHjtYACgkQTE4/y7nJvavn9gCgt5tw0IaT8GRdh2w0nY+RskZF > H2YAoMgphYWUOp4bVMl8TWp0Qy1nTzjI > =3DaR8L > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >=20 --=20 Tiziano M=C3=BCller Gentoo Linux Developer, Council Member Areas of responsibility: Samba, PostgreSQL, CPP, Python, sysadmin, GLEP Editor E-Mail : dev-zero@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : F327 283A E769 2E36 18D5 4DE2 1B05 6A63 AE9C 1E30 --=-CppLpL2seXM65SQyzos/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkpHoBIACgkQGwVqY66cHjAwDgCfZVpiwkYd8LihlNm+joa5FaP9 dL0An3/a6ufeG66K4/cmCws1MHExTtSw =3D+zW1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-CppLpL2seXM65SQyzos/-- --=-jehjLCb8/VhxI+jJV+ym Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; 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