From: Ferris McCormick <fmccor@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Proposal for how to handle stable ebuilds
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:49:53 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1226411393.6035.332.camel@liasis.inforead.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <49195BFA.7060404@gentoo.org>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4704 bytes --]
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 11:18 +0100, Jose Luis Rivero wrote:
> Richard Freeman wrote:
> > Jose Luis Rivero wrote:
> >> I would prefer to analyze the causes of the slacker arch (manpower,
> >> hardware, etc) and if we are not able to solve the problem by any way
> >> (asking for new devs, buying hardware, etc) go for mark it as
> >> experimental and drop all stable keywords.
> >
> > How is that better? Instead of dropping one stable package you'd end up
> > dropping all of them. A user could accept ~arch and get the same
> > behavior without any need to mark every other package in the tree
> > unstable.
>
> Accept ~arch for the random package which has lost the stable keyword a
> random day? And next week .. which is going to be the next? The key is
> the concept 'stable' and what you hope of it.
>
> A long/middle-term solution for arches with very few resources instead
> of generating problems to users seems a much better approach to me.
>
> > An arch could put a note to that effect in their installation
> > handbook. The user could then choose between a very narrow core of
> > stable packages or a wider universe of experimental ones.
>
> Mixing software branches is very easy in the Gentoo world but it has
> some problems. Are you going to install in your stable (production,
> critial, important,...) system a combination of packages not tested
> before? Because the arch teams or the maintainers are not going to test
> every posible combination of core stable + universe of experimental
> packages. This is why branches exists.
>
> > I guess the question is whether package maintainers should be forced to
> > maintain packages that are outdated by a significant period of time.
> > Suppose something breaks a package that is 3 versions behind stable on
> > all archs but one (where it is the current stable). Should the package
> > maintainer be required to fix it, rather than just delete it?
>
> Maintainer has done all he can do, this means: that is broken, this
> version fix the problem, go for it. Maintainer's job finishes here, now
> it's the problem of your favorite arch team.
>
> > I suspect
> > that the maintainer would be more likely to just leave it broken, which
> > doesn't exactly leave things better-off for the end users.
>
> It's a different approach (maybe with the same bad results) but
> different anyway. Leave the bug there, point the user to the bug and
> maybe you can gain a new dev or an arch tester.
>
> While the proposal made here is to throw random keyword problems to
> users by policy (which in the case of amd64 some months ago would have
> created a complete disaster).
>
> > I'm sure the maintainers of qt/baselayout/coreutils/etc will exercise
> > discretion on removing stable versions of these packages. However, for
> > some obscure utility that next-to-nobody uses, does it really hurt to
> > move from stable back to unstable if the arch maintainers can't keep up?
>
> Special cases and special plans are allowed, what we are discussing here
> is a general and accepted policy.
>
> > I guess it comes down to the driving issues. How big a problem are
> > stale packages (with the recent movement of a few platforms to
> > experimental, is this an already-solved problem?)? How big of a problem
> > do arch teams see keeping up with 30-days as (or maybe 60/90)? What are
> > the practical (rather than theoretical) ramifications?
>
> An interesting discussion. Ask our council to listen all parts:
> maintainers, current arch teams, the experience of mips, etc. and try to
> make a good choice.
>
> Thanks Richard.
>
> --
> Jose Luis Rivero <yoswink@gentoo.org>
> Gentoo/Alpha Gentoo/Do
>
Very interesting discussion. Let me take a more or less random post and
toss in a slight variation. As you might know, I am an arch maintainer
(sparc) and I don't think we are a "slacker architecture." However, I
have placed an indefinite hold on a stabalization request from the
bug-that-must-not-be-named, because in my opinion this package given the
current state of everything should not go stable on sparc (more QA
issues than functional ones).
How, I wonder, would the variations here handle such a situation? I
don't think this situation is unique because arch developers are
sometimes going to have a different concept of "stable" than the package
developers do.
If this does not make sense, is off topic, or irrelevant feel free to
ignore it.
Regards,
Ferris
--
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)
[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-11-11 13:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-11-10 18:13 [gentoo-dev] Proposal for how to handle stable ebuilds Mark Loeser
2008-11-10 18:23 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2008-11-10 18:23 ` Mart Raudsepp
2008-11-10 20:32 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2008-11-10 21:16 ` Jeremy Olexa
2008-11-10 21:57 ` Santiago M. Mola
2008-11-11 0:24 ` Jose Luis Rivero
2008-11-11 1:13 ` Mark Loeser
2008-11-11 9:31 ` Jose Luis Rivero
2008-11-11 1:21 ` Richard Freeman
2008-11-11 8:56 ` Peter Volkov
2008-11-11 10:18 ` Jose Luis Rivero
2008-11-11 13:49 ` Ferris McCormick [this message]
2008-11-11 16:06 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2008-11-11 16:24 ` Jeroen Roovers
2008-11-11 17:26 ` Duncan
2008-11-11 17:55 ` Ferris McCormick
2008-11-11 18:12 ` Jeroen Roovers
2008-11-11 21:03 ` Duncan
2008-11-13 17:38 ` [gentoo-dev] " Tobias Scherbaum
2008-11-15 13:02 ` Matti Bickel
2008-11-17 18:08 ` Tobias Scherbaum
2008-11-17 19:03 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2008-12-11 5:35 ` [gentoo-dev] " Donnie Berkholz
2008-11-17 0:38 ` [gentoo-dev] " Ryan Hill
2008-11-17 15:10 ` Daniel Gryniewicz
2008-11-18 1:08 ` Ryan Hill
2008-11-18 16:57 ` Daniel Gryniewicz
2008-11-18 17:50 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2008-11-18 20:31 ` Daniel Gryniewicz
2008-11-18 21:18 ` Ryan Hill
2008-11-18 22:04 ` Daniel Gryniewicz
2008-11-18 22:45 ` Ryan Hill
2008-11-30 22:59 ` Ryan Hill
2008-12-01 7:49 ` Peter Volkov
2008-12-11 5:37 ` [gentoo-dev] " Donnie Berkholz
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=1226411393.6035.332.camel@liasis.inforead.com \
--to=fmccor@gentoo.org \
--cc=gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox