[gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Peter Weller]

Unless anyone has any objections, I'll magically turn 'keyring' into a
global USE flag tomorrow evening:

welp@marx ~/gentoo/cvs/gentoo-x86/profiles $ grep ':keyring'
use.local.desc
app-crypt/seahorse:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
app-text/evince:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
gnome-base/gvfs:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
gnome-extra/evolution-data-server:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support
for storing passwords
media-sound/rhythmbox:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
net-im/gossip:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
net-im/telepathy-mission-control:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support
for storing passwords
net-misc/twitux:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
net-misc/vino:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
passwords
welp@marx ~/gentoo/cvs/gentoo-x86/profiles $ 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2008-04-20 16:45:43 Peter Weller napisał(a):
> Unless anyone has any objections, I'll magically turn 'keyring' into a
> global USE flag tomorrow evening:
> 
> welp@marx ~/gentoo/cvs/gentoo-x86/profiles $ grep ':keyring'
> use.local.desc
> app-crypt/seahorse:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> app-text/evince:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> gnome-base/gvfs:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> gnome-extra/evolution-data-server:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support
> for storing passwords
> media-sound/rhythmbox:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> net-im/gossip:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> net-im/telepathy-mission-control:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support
> for storing passwords
> net-misc/twitux:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> net-misc/vino:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> welp@marx ~/gentoo/cvs/gentoo-x86/profiles $ 

I object to the name of this USE flag. It should be 'gnome-keyring'.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Alon Bar-Lev]

This may be confusing with Linux key store.
I suggest gnome-something as it is gnome feature.

Alon

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Unless anyone has any objections, I'll magically turn 'keyring' into a
> global USE flag tomorrow evening:
>
> welp@marx ~/gentoo/cvs/gentoo-x86/profiles $ grep ':keyring'
> use.local.desc
> app-crypt/seahorse:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> app-text/evince:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> gnome-base/gvfs:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> gnome-extra/evolution-data-server:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support
> for storing passwords
> media-sound/rhythmbox:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> net-im/gossip:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> net-im/telepathy-mission-control:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support
> for storing passwords
> net-misc/twitux:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> net-misc/vino:keyring - Enable gnome-keyring support for storing
> passwords
> welp@marx ~/gentoo/cvs/gentoo-x86/profiles $
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
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[gentoo-dev] Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Ali Polatel]

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Alon Bar-Lev yazmış:
> I suggest gnome-something as it is gnome feature.

How about gnome-keyring? :)

-- 
Regards,
Ali Polatel

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Peter Weller]

On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 18:32 +0300, Ali Polatel wrote:
> Alon Bar-Lev yazmış:
> > I suggest gnome-something as it is gnome feature.
> 
> How about gnome-keyring? :)
> 

Why? All the ebuilds currently using the 'keyring' use flag are using it
for gnome-keyring. As long as there is a proper description of the USE
flag, there should be no confusion caused.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Alon Bar-Lev]

2008/4/20 Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org>:
> On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 18:32 +0300, Ali Polatel wrote:
> > Alon Bar-Lev yazmış:
> > > I suggest gnome-something as it is gnome feature.
> >
> > How about gnome-keyring? :)
> >
>
> Why? All the ebuilds currently using the 'keyring' use flag are using it
> for gnome-keyring. As long as there is a proper description of the USE
> flag, there should be no confusion caused.

Because it may be confusing.
As long as it is local flag for gnome packages, the gnome is implicit.
If you want it to be global, gnome should be explicit.

Alon

[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Tiziano Müller]

Alon Bar-Lev wrote:

> 2008/4/20 Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org>:
>> On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 18:32 +0300, Ali Polatel wrote:
>> > Alon Bar-Lev yazm??:
>> > > I suggest gnome-something as it is gnome feature.
>> >
>> > How about gnome-keyring? :)
>> >
>>
>> Why? All the ebuilds currently using the 'keyring' use flag are using it
>> for gnome-keyring. As long as there is a proper description of the USE
>> flag, there should be no confusion caused.
> 
> Because it may be confusing.
True.

> As long as it is local flag for gnome packages, the gnome is implicit.
> If you want it to be global, gnome should be explicit.
Only in case there are other packages which use a 'keyring' use flag which
means something else than support for gnome-keyring.

I'd say we should convert it to a global use flag now with a good
description and change it to gnome-keyring later in case we really have a
package which needs 'keyring' for something else.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Alon Bar-Lev]

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On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Tiziano Müller <dev-zero@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I'd say we should convert it to a global use flag now with a good
> description and change it to gnome-keyring later in case we really have a
> package which needs 'keyring' for something else.

If we know there may be a future problem, why make the next *VALID*
addition perform extra work? This is gnome specific feature, should
have gnome explicit mark.
If we have keyring in KDE, or keyring in kernel or any other "generic"
keyring. The extra work should be done now, so we have less conflict
in future.

Alon
éí¢‡^¾X¬¶È\x1ežÚ(¢¸&j)bž	b²

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Peter Weller]

On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 18:06 +0200, Tiziano Müller wrote:
> Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
> 
> > 2008/4/20 Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org>:
> >> On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 18:32 +0300, Ali Polatel wrote:
> >> > Alon Bar-Lev yazm??:
> >> > > I suggest gnome-something as it is gnome feature.
> >> >
> >> > How about gnome-keyring? :)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Why? All the ebuilds currently using the 'keyring' use flag are using it
> >> for gnome-keyring. As long as there is a proper description of the USE
> >> flag, there should be no confusion caused.
> > 
> > Because it may be confusing.
> True.
"Proper description of the USE flag"

> > As long as it is local flag for gnome packages, the gnome is implicit.
> > If you want it to be global, gnome should be explicit.
> Only in case there are other packages which use a 'keyring' use flag which
> means something else than support for gnome-keyring.
> 
> I'd say we should convert it to a global use flag now with a good
> description and change it to gnome-keyring later in case we really have a
> package which needs 'keyring' for something else.
I agree with what dev-zero just wrote there.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Santiago M. Mola]

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On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 18:06 +0200, Tiziano Müller wrote:
>  >
>  > I'd say we should convert it to a global use flag now with a good
>  > description and change it to gnome-keyring later in case we really have a
>  > package which needs 'keyring' for something else.
>  I agree with what dev-zero just wrote there.
>

That's unlikely to happen. When a program needs 'keyring' for
something else, the maintainer will see that 'keyring' is used for
'gnome-keyring' and will choose another name ('foo-keyring').

-- 
Santiago M. Mola
Jabber ID: cooldwind@gmail.com
éí¢‡^¾X¬¶È\x1ežÚ(¢¸&j)bž	b²

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Mike Auty]

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Hash: SHA1

Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
| If we know there may be a future problem, why make the next *VALID*
| addition perform extra work?

I think the reasoning is that whilst there may be a future problem,
there currently isn't.  If it gets changed to gnome-keyring, it will
definitely requires all the users of the keyring USE flag to change it.
~ We could save them that hassle until there is actually a conflict?
It's just a design decision, either we do, or we don't, but I don't
think it's too big a deal.  Depends if we want to be strictly correct,
or delay a small headache for our users?

Mike  5:)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

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Le dimanche 20 avril 2008 à 15:45 +0100, Peter Weller a écrit :
> Unless anyone has any objections, I'll magically turn 'keyring' into a
> global USE flag tomorrow evening:

for what it's worth, as a gnome dev I didn't see any convincing
arguments as to why it should be renamed. Gnome makes things optional
for other to reuse (like xfce) but afaik no other "keyring" like
programs are optional deps of another package in portage. Let's not cast
a simple change into breakage for users already using it (even in
stable, and yes I'm lazy :D).
-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Alon Bar-Lev]

On 4/20/08, Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:
> for what it's worth, as a gnome dev I didn't see any convincing
>  arguments as to why it should be renamed. Gnome makes things optional
>  for other to reuse (like xfce) but afaik no other "keyring" like
>  programs are optional deps of another package in portage. Let's not cast
>  a simple change into breakage for users already using it (even in
>  stable, and yes I'm lazy :D).

Lazy is the word.
I cannot argue with this one, I just know that it won't be the gnome
herd who do the work when the time come to fix this (resolve
conflict).
The gnome herd will re-introduce the lazy ticket, and make other herd
use yet another confusing USE flag.
This is not the right way to maintain long term constants.

You asked for objections... You got some.

You can leave this local USE flag, and stay with generic term.
Or you can rename it when it goes global so it have proper name.
You can also ignore this and force gnome onto all users.

Alon.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

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Le dimanche 20 avril 2008 à 20:25 +0300, Alon Bar-Lev a écrit :
> On 4/20/08, Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > for what it's worth, as a gnome dev I didn't see any convincing
> >  arguments as to why it should be renamed. Gnome makes things optional
> >  for other to reuse (like xfce) but afaik no other "keyring" like
> >  programs are optional deps of another package in portage. Let's not cast
> >  a simple change into breakage for users already using it (even in
> >  stable, and yes I'm lazy :D).
> 
> Lazy is the word.
> I cannot argue with this one, I just know that it won't be the gnome
> herd who do the work when the time come to fix this (resolve
> conflict).
> The gnome herd will re-introduce the lazy ticket, and make other herd
> use yet another confusing USE flag.
> This is not the right way to maintain long term constants.

failure, you tried to argue ;)

> You asked for objections... You got some.
> 
> You can leave this local USE flag, and stay with generic term.
> Or you can rename it when it goes global so it have proper name.
> You can also ignore this and force gnome onto all users.

Seriously though, when I find stuff to fix, I try to fix it. I just
don't see anything to fix right now.

-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Peter Weller]

On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 19:36 +0200, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:
> Le dimanche 20 avril 2008 à 20:25 +0300, Alon Bar-Lev a écrit :
> > On 4/20/08, Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > for what it's worth, as a gnome dev I didn't see any convincing
> > >  arguments as to why it should be renamed. Gnome makes things optional
> > >  for other to reuse (like xfce) but afaik no other "keyring" like
> > >  programs are optional deps of another package in portage. Let's not cast
> > >  a simple change into breakage for users already using it (even in
> > >  stable, and yes I'm lazy :D).
> > 
> > Lazy is the word.
> > I cannot argue with this one, I just know that it won't be the gnome
> > herd who do the work when the time come to fix this (resolve
> > conflict).
> > The gnome herd will re-introduce the lazy ticket, and make other herd
> > use yet another confusing USE flag.
> > This is not the right way to maintain long term constants.
> 
> failure, you tried to argue ;)
> 
> > You asked for objections... You got some.
> > 
> > You can leave this local USE flag, and stay with generic term.
> > Or you can rename it when it goes global so it have proper name.
> > You can also ignore this and force gnome onto all users.
> 
> Seriously though, when I find stuff to fix, I try to fix it. I just
> don't see anything to fix right now.

There are currently three options in my mind: to rename the USE flag as
'gnome-keyring', to just globalize the 'keyring' USE flag as is, or to
remove the USE flag completely. Each have a number of downs and ups:

Renaming
	1) We have to change 9 ebuilds to reflect the change
	2) Almost all Gnome users will be affected in one way or another
	3) Technically correct
	4) Reduces chances of future collisions
	5) More work for developers

Keeping it as is
	1) Less headache for Gnome users in the short term (but possibly
          more if we rename it in the future
	2) Less work for me/Gnome herd
	3) Technically incorrect
	4) Could result in conflicts in the future

Removing
	1) Nice and simple. Just force all packages to compile with
          --gnome-keyring
	2) A large number of users will probably start complaining about
          all their packages being compiled with gnome-keyring support
	3) Xfce people will hate hate hate, I will be crucified.

After consideration of the above, and consultation with the Gnome herd,
I think that the best option would be to rename the USE flag to
gnome-keyring.

If anyone has any objections to *that*, pipe up before tomorrow evening.

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[gentoo-dev] Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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Peter Weller <welp@gentoo.org> writes:

> 	1) Nice and simple. Just force all packages to compile with
>           --gnome-keyring

*cough* pambase *cough*

So discard this idea already, removing the flag is not an
option... unless you want pambase to stick with gnome USE flag as I did
in origin.

(I admit I didn't check if Remi renamed it or not, but he asked, so...).

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:06:07 +0200
Tiziano Müller <dev-zero@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I'd say we should convert it to a global use flag now with a good
> description and change it to gnome-keyring later in case we really
> have a package which needs 'keyring' for something else.

Needless to say it would save quite a few users from needlessly
rebuilding a few packages. That's green thinking. :)


     JeR
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Steve Long]

Jeroen Roovers wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:06:07 +0200
> Tiziano Müller <dev-zero@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> I'd say we should convert it to a global use flag now with a good
>> description and change it to gnome-keyring later in case we really
>> have a package which needs 'keyring' for something else.
> 
> Needless to say it would save quite a few users from needlessly
> rebuilding a few packages. That's green thinking. :)
> 
Sorry to get technical but how difficult is it really to change USE flag
names? I appreciate that users are out of sync yadda yadda, but could this
kind of thing not be considered out of band data similar to news?

I accept that portage has to maintain compatibility but aiui the old way of
doing this was simply depending on a version of portage that had the
capability. Since we're only talking about ~10 packages, is that so much of
a hardship?

After all, I'm sure the other manglers don't lag behind emerge, based on the
hyperbole. Do they?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:02:29 +0100
Steve Long <slong@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

> Sorry to get technical but how difficult is it really to change USE
> flag names? I appreciate that users are out of sync yadda yadda, but
> could this kind of thing not be considered out of band data similar
> to news?
> 
> I accept that portage has to maintain compatibility but aiui the old
> way of doing this was simply depending on a version of portage that
> had the capability. Since we're only talking about ~10 packages, is
> that so much of a hardship?
> 
> After all, I'm sure the other manglers don't lag behind emerge, based
> on the hyperbole. Do they?

I'm deeply sorry. I read all of that three times and while it seemed to
make sense the first time, by the third time I saw the error of my ways.


Kind regards,
     JeR
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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global USE flag: keyring

[Peter Weller]

On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 19:11 +0100, Peter Weller wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 19:36 +0200, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:
> > Le dimanche 20 avril 2008 à 20:25 +0300, Alon Bar-Lev a écrit :
> > > On 4/20/08, Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > for what it's worth, as a gnome dev I didn't see any convincing
> > > >  arguments as to why it should be renamed. Gnome makes things optional
> > > >  for other to reuse (like xfce) but afaik no other "keyring" like
> > > >  programs are optional deps of another package in portage. Let's not cast
> > > >  a simple change into breakage for users already using it (even in
> > > >  stable, and yes I'm lazy :D).
> > > 
> > > Lazy is the word.
> > > I cannot argue with this one, I just know that it won't be the gnome
> > > herd who do the work when the time come to fix this (resolve
> > > conflict).
> > > The gnome herd will re-introduce the lazy ticket, and make other herd
> > > use yet another confusing USE flag.
> > > This is not the right way to maintain long term constants.
> > 
> > failure, you tried to argue ;)
> > 
> > > You asked for objections... You got some.
> > > 
> > > You can leave this local USE flag, and stay with generic term.
> > > Or you can rename it when it goes global so it have proper name.
> > > You can also ignore this and force gnome onto all users.
> > 
> > Seriously though, when I find stuff to fix, I try to fix it. I just
> > don't see anything to fix right now.
> 
> There are currently three options in my mind: to rename the USE flag as
> 'gnome-keyring', to just globalize the 'keyring' USE flag as is, or to
> remove the USE flag completely. Each have a number of downs and ups:
> 
> Renaming
> 	1) We have to change 9 ebuilds to reflect the change
> 	2) Almost all Gnome users will be affected in one way or another
> 	3) Technically correct
> 	4) Reduces chances of future collisions
> 	5) More work for developers
> 
> Keeping it as is
> 	1) Less headache for Gnome users in the short term (but possibly
>           more if we rename it in the future
> 	2) Less work for me/Gnome herd
> 	3) Technically incorrect
> 	4) Could result in conflicts in the future
> 
> Removing
> 	1) Nice and simple. Just force all packages to compile with
>           --gnome-keyring
> 	2) A large number of users will probably start complaining about
>           all their packages being compiled with gnome-keyring support
> 	3) Xfce people will hate hate hate, I will be crucified.
> 
> After consideration of the above, and consultation with the Gnome herd,
> I think that the best option would be to rename the USE flag to
> gnome-keyring.
> 
> If anyone has any objections to *that*, pipe up before tomorrow evening.
All done. If anyone spots any missed packages/problems, feel free to fix
or poke me to fix it.

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: Re: New global USE flag: keyring

[Steve Long]

Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:02:29 +0100
> Steve Long <slong@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Sorry to get technical but how difficult is it really to change USE
>> flag names? I appreciate that users are out of sync yadda yadda, but
>> could this kind of thing not be considered out of band data similar
>> to news?
>> 
>> I accept that portage has to maintain compatibility but aiui the old
>> way of doing this was simply depending on a version of portage that
>> had the capability. Since we're only talking about ~10 packages, is
>> that so much of a hardship?
>> 
>> After all, I'm sure the other manglers don't lag behind emerge, based
>> on the hyperbole. Do they?
> 
> I'm deeply sorry. I read all of that three times and while it seemed to
> make sense the first time, by the third time I saw the error of my ways.
> 
You've lost me; if I've caused you offence somehow please accept my apology
and mail me off-list to tell me how.

Regards,
Steve.


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