From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ioz0X-0003Ip-La for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:16:38 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.2/8.14.0) with SMTP id lA5AFaeg009295; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:15:36 GMT Received: from mail.marples.name (rsm.demon.co.uk [80.177.111.50]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.2/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lA5ADmYx006885 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:13:49 GMT Received: from [10.73.1.31] (uberlaptop.marples.name [10.73.1.31]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B66E190105 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:13:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] POSIX shell and "portable" From: Roy Marples To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <1194254556.6977.46.camel@sapc154> References: <472B29B9.50002@gentoo.org> <200711021730.21089.bo.andresen@zlin.dk> <1194022333.3029.3.camel@uberpc.marples.name> <200711021817.32146.bo.andresen@zlin.dk> <1194024908.3029.6.camel@uberpc.marples.name> <20071103001922.GD1907@gentoo.org> <1194050878.16405.10.camel@uberpc.marples.name> <1194254556.6977.46.camel@sapc154> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Gentoo Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:13:46 +0000 Message-Id: <1194257626.4196.9.camel@uberlaptop.marples.name> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 7ca65188-448e-40ef-a7a6-f60acda5c4b9 X-Archives-Hash: 706a542d3308f658609fdb2ce2dab9e4 While I still have access to the u@g.o email, I'll respond here. On Mon, 2007-11-05 at 10:22 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote: > On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 00:47 +0000, Roy Marples wrote: > > As it seems too few people really accept your suggestion, I feel it's > time for me to chime in too, although I don't know what exactly POSIX-sh > standard defines. > Agreed, but (speaking for alt/prefix): > > Alt/prefix is designed to (mainly) work without superuser access on the > target machine, which may also be Solaris, AIX, HP-UX and the like. > /bin/sh on such a machine is not POSIX-shell, but old bourne-shell > (unfortunately with bugs often). > And it is _impossible_ to have sysadmins to get /bin/sh a POSIX-Shell > nor to have that bugs fixed. > > But yes, on most machines there is /bin/ksh, which IMHO is POSIX > compliant (maybe also with non-fixable bugs). > > Although I do not know yet for which _installed_ scripts it'd be really > useful to have them non-bash in alt/prefix, I appreciate the discussion. > > To see benefits for alt/prefix too, it _might_ require that discussion > going from requiring /bin/sh being POSIX-sh towards being > bourne-shell... Actually you missed the mark completely. Nothing in the tree itself specifies what shell to use - instead it's the package manager. So the PM on Gentoo/Linux/FreeBSD *could* be /bin/sh and on the systems where /bin/sh is not possible to change to a POSIX compliant shell then it can still use /bin/bash or wherever it's installed. This also applies to the userland tools. If the ebuild or eclass *has* to use the GNU variants then it should either adjust $PATH so that it finds them first, or it prefixes them all with g, like it does on Gentoo/FreeBSD. None of this is technically challenging in itself, it's just that the key people who would have to do the work to make this possible have already given a flat out no. > > > It seems to me that you actually mean "more FreeBSD-able" or something, > > > which is a high price to pay for a relatively small part of Gentoo as a > > > whole. > > > > More embeddable. > > More BSDable. > > More Linuxable - bash isn't the only linux shell, there are plently of > > others. > > More (generic) unix-able. Exactly so :) Thanks Roy -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list