Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

[Daniel Ostrow <dostrow@gentoo.org>]

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On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 13:24 -0700, Mike Doty wrote:
> All-
> 
> We're going to change the -dev mailing list from completely open to where only
> devs can post, but any dev could moderate a non-dev post.  devs who moderate in
>  bad posts will be subject to moderation themselves.  in addition the
> gentoo-project list will be created to take over what -dev frequently becomes.
>  there is no requirement to be on this new list.
> 
> This will probably remove the need for -core(everything gets leaked out anyway)
> but that's a path to cross later.
> 
> We're voting on this next council meeting so if you have input, now would be
> the time.

It is rare enough that I actually respond to something on -dev (or any
ml for that matter) so you know I have to care...

Personally, I rather dislike this proposal, mostly because I see it as a
bunch of unnecessary work...

I as a developer find it very difficult to cut though what I consider
noise to find the bits that I consider important to being able to
continue being an effective developer on a list that I am *required* to
be subscribed to. We have considered the likes of a moderated list, an
announce only list and now this sillyness to help in cutting down on
what a lot of us see as noise. How about we try something else....a self
moderated quasi-announce list...

1). Create 1 (ONE) new list, which, for the purposes of this discussion
I will call it gentoo-dev-info (the name matters not). The requirement
for subscription for all devs would shift from gentoo-dev to
gentoo-dev-info.

2). All *new* threads should cross post (regardless of whether it is
from a dev or a user) to both gentoo-dev and gentoo-dev-info. Those that
don't cross post (either by ignorance or accident) can be forwarded by
someone to the missing list.

3). The reply-to header for gentoo-dev-info should be set to gentoo-dev.

4). No further e-mail will be sent to gentoo-dev-info on this new thread
until a resolution on what actions if any need to be undertaken.

5). If a thread topic is posted that interests you as a developer (or a
user for that matter), you can either a). sub to gentoo-dev to continue
discussion there, b). utilize any of the archives to follow the topic
and contribute without being subscribed or c) have already been
subscribed and only pay attention to this one thread sending the rest
to /dev/null (yay! procmail).

6) After the thread has petered out, if, and only if, any action is
being taken, be that a change in policy, a clarification of policy or an
actual change in behavior of some component, the dev or devs who are
going to take said action send a notice describing it as a follow up
notice to both gentoo-dev and gentoo-dev-info.

Using that model devs and any users that want to subscribe as well can
be aware of every new thread that gets started and choose to participate
or not. This also gives them a new list that should have almost no
noise, every thread will be at most two e-mails long, the initial e-mail
and the resolution (if any). If you don't care about a topic all you see
is that it was discussed and what the outcome of said discussion was, if
you do care, you involve yourself in the discussion at your pleasure.

We can trust people on their honor not to post to gentoo-dev-info in any
manner other then that described above. This way we avoid the whole
overhead of having to moderate the list, if people misbehave and post
additional crap to the list consider moderating that one user...but
honestly since there is a list *with the same thread* meant for
discussion already this should only happen out of ignorance of policy or
malicious action...the latter should be clearly identifiable and dealing
with it should be easy.

No need to change the status quo for dev, no need to privatize core,
just create one list, post the rules and off you go...

--Dan

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