[gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[Benedikt Boehm]

... don't care about an uber-vision or direction and just keep your
friggin packages alive and working?

I'm so sick to hear people crying that noone is around to tell them what
to do..

So here is my proposal:

ABSTAIN!

That's it for now :)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[Christopher Sawtell]

On Wednesday 11 April 2007 10:56:40 Benedikt Boehm wrote:
> ... don't care about an uber-vision or direction and just keep your
> friggin packages alive and working?
Indeed!!

Doing an   emerge --deep --update world   last week b0rked updating about a 
couple of dozen packages. Evenutally I realized that the problem was 
gcc-4.1.2 had a supposedly executable file filled with zeros in its 
file-set. Masking gcc-4.1.2 and reverting to the 4.1.1 series has nearly 
got me going again.There is still one package which won't compile.
OK I'm running ~x86 so I suppose I shouldn't complain, but 
This whole exercise, combined with the flame fests in here, has left me, a 
Gentoo user for many years, since version 1.2, feeling very upset and 
distinctly fiesty. Until the QA is a bit better I honestly feel I can't 
wholeheartedly recommend Gentoo anymore.

> I'm so sick to hear people crying that noone is around to tell them what
> to do.. 

Well I'm sick of seeing people wasting their precious time playing politics, 
misunderstanding eachother and flaming as a consequence.

> So here is my proposal:
>
> ABSTAIN!
>
> That's it for now :)
Absolutely!!!!

-- 
CS
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[Andy Dalton]

On 4/10/07, Christopher Sawtell <csawtell@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Evenutally I realized that the problem was
> gcc-4.1.2 had a supposedly executable file filled with zeros in its
> file-set. Masking gcc-4.1.2 and reverting to the 4.1.1 series has nearly
> got me going again.There is still one package which won't compile.
> OK I'm running ~x86 so I suppose I shouldn't complain, ...

You're right, you shouldn't complain.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[Matthias Langer]

On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 13:26 +1200, Christopher Sawtell wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 April 2007 10:56:40 Benedikt Boehm wrote:
> > ... don't care about an uber-vision or direction and just keep your
> > friggin packages alive and working?
> Indeed!!
> 
> Doing an   emerge --deep --update world   last week b0rked updating about a 
> couple of dozen packages. Evenutally I realized that the problem was 
> gcc-4.1.2 had a supposedly executable file filled with zeros in its 
> file-set. Masking gcc-4.1.2 and reverting to the 4.1.1 series has nearly 
> got me going again.There is still one package which won't compile.
> OK I'm running ~x86 so I suppose I shouldn't complain, but 
> This whole exercise, combined with the flame fests in here, has left me, a 
> Gentoo user for many years, since version 1.2, feeling very upset and 
> distinctly fiesty. Until the QA is a bit better I honestly feel I can't 
> wholeheartedly recommend Gentoo anymore.
> 

Well, I don't know what your problem really is about; I'm running x86,
and if something breaks on my system, it's mostly not because of broken
packages, but because I should have been informed about possible issues
that could have been caused by an upgrade, and how to avoid them. Often,
ebuilds contain very important information that are brought to the user
via elog, ewarn and friends. The problem with this approach is, that I
won't read these messages if I'm doing a world update while I'm asleep.
This is, why I think, that it should be one of Gentoos highest
priorities to implement Glep 42 and make heavy use of it.

Matthias



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[Alec Warner]

Matthias Langer wrote:
> 
> Well, I don't know what your problem really is about; I'm running x86,
> and if something breaks on my system, it's mostly not because of broken
> packages, but because I should have been informed about possible issues
> that could have been caused by an upgrade, and how to avoid them. Often,
> ebuilds contain very important information that are brought to the user
> via elog, ewarn and friends. The problem with this approach is, that I
> won't read these messages if I'm doing a world update while I'm asleep.
> This is, why I think, that it should be one of Gentoos highest
> priorities to implement Glep 42 and make heavy use of it.
> 
> Matthias

Your post brings up an interesting concept; that Gentoo is both a
repository of ebuilds and is also a distribution of packages.

Providing ebuilds for X number of packages is a nice thing and if you
complain about Gentoo being too large and too undivided you could devide
the work there.  Maintaining a set of packages involves writing ebuilds.

Maintaining a distribution involves much more work; I think for some
it's not exactly the work they are interested in and it is the place
where most of the....friction? lies.

Random-dev doesn't care about 'gentoo' so much as he cares that his
packages are working/(up to date) and 'gentoo' more or less works ok
given his knowledge of it's internals.

Or am I way off here?

There are many devs that have all kinds of opinions about a distro and
how it is set up; but I think there are very few people who have
thoughts about how to create and maintain a meta-distro.

PS: If there is a better list for this please point me there.

-Alec
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why don't you just ...

[Luca Barbato]

Christopher Sawtell wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 April 2007 10:56:40 Benedikt Boehm wrote:
>> ... don't care about an uber-vision or direction and just keep your
>> friggin packages alive and working?
> Indeed!!
> 
> Doing an   emerge --deep --update world   last week b0rked updating about a 
> couple of dozen packages. Evenutally I realized that the problem was 
> gcc-4.1.2 had a supposedly executable file filled with zeros in its 
> file-set.

Did you fill a bug about it? I have 4.1.2 in most of my systems and they
are working fine. Sounds a quite local problem, can you reproduce it?

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Why don't you just ...

[Christian Faulhammer]

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Matthias Langer <mlangc@gmx.at>:

> Well, I don't know what your problem really is about; I'm running x86,
> and if something breaks on my system, it's mostly not because of
> broken packages, but because I should have been informed about
> possible issues that could have been caused by an upgrade, and how to
> avoid them. Often, ebuilds contain very important information that
> are brought to the user via elog, ewarn and friends. The problem with
> this approach is, that I won't read these messages if I'm doing a
> world update while I'm asleep. This is, why I think, that it should
> be one of Gentoos highest priorities to implement Glep 42 and make
> heavy use of it.

 Use the ELOG features of Portage.  The needed software has been
packaged by your master-dev. :)  app-portage/elogviewer in your case...

V-Li

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Why don't you just ...

[Matthias Langer]

On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 13:47 +0200, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
> Matthias Langer <mlangc@gmx.at>:
> 
> > Well, I don't know what your problem really is about; I'm running x86,
> > and if something breaks on my system, it's mostly not because of
> > broken packages, but because I should have been informed about
> > possible issues that could have been caused by an upgrade, and how to
> > avoid them. Often, ebuilds contain very important information that
> > are brought to the user via elog, ewarn and friends. The problem with
> > this approach is, that I won't read these messages if I'm doing a
> > world update while I'm asleep. This is, why I think, that it should
> > be one of Gentoos highest priorities to implement Glep 42 and make
> > heavy use of it.
> 
>  Use the ELOG features of Portage.  The needed software has been
> packaged by your master-dev. :)  app-portage/elogviewer in your case...
> 

Thanks for that tip - app-portage/elogviewer seems to be an interesting
program. However, it is not an alternative for glep 42 as it may not
inform me about possible issues *before* it might be almost too late.
While for me, searching through the logs, to fix things afterwards  is
acceptable, it is not on a system where functionality is critical.

Matthias

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Why don't you just ...

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 18:50 +0200, Matthias Langer wrote:
> a system where functionality is critical.

I would expect any such system to have a decent administrator that is
versed in best practices, such as actually testing upgrades before
applying them on any such server.

GLEP42 is not designed to let admins be lazy.  It is designed to get
important information to our users.  People with critical systems will
still need to perform the same level of verification before doing any
upgrades, no matter how much information we give them.  The idea here is
to warn people about potential changes ahead of time so they know where
to focus their time.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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