From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FpRQZ-0004Wm-Lq for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:00:36 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k5BEwHC1021280; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:58:17 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5BEqdH0013680 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:52:39 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D17064AAF for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:52:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28175-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:52:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.6]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE53C64779 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 14:52:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.23.170.147] (helo=anti-virus03-10) by smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FpRIq-0001jW-0T for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:52:36 +0100 Received: from [80.235.134.226] (helo=[10.0.1.6]) by asmtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FpRIp-0003Ck-77 for gentoo-dev@gentoo.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:52:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item From: Christel Dahlskjaer To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-kuqw/1hwmg/dgAOywvmL" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:51:42 +0100 Message-Id: <1150041102.4289.24.camel@gaspode> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.396 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.203, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Archives-Salt: c7a8349c-723f-479f-b98a-97efee88ed7f X-Archives-Hash: a62b2e8a7494803c9bb333aca358c60e --=-kuqw/1hwmg/dgAOywvmL Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another vanishing reply from yesterday. -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Christel Dahlskjaer > To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] July Council Meeting: Requested Agenda Item > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:44:02 +0100 >=20 > On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 10:56 +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote: > > On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 03:28 +0100, Christel Dahlskjaer wrote: > > > I would like to ask that the Council discuss the current state and > > > future of the GWN at their next meeting. > > I don't think you have to escalate that far. We should be able to discu= ss things without the thermonuclear option ;-) >=20 > I have no idea, I asked people, they suggested the Council. It may be > the wrong place :) >=20 > > > 1. Reliability. The GWN claims to be a weekly publication, yet it > > > frequently fails to publish without prior warning. There was no editi= on > > > this week, and Patrick Lauer says that it is "unknown" whether there > > > will be an edition next week as Ulrich Plate is AWOL. > > We have tried to get a backup structure working, Halcy0n for example=20 > > offered to help. Ulrich never responded to these offers. He usually has= =20 > > a good reason for not doing the GWN (like no Internet access, broken no= tebook etc), but I also find this quite unsatisfactory. >=20 > I am sure his reasons are good, and I agree there should be a backup > structure in place.=20 >=20 > > > 2. Permissions. Although it could be considered flattering that the G= WN > > > should choose a developer's blog as inspiration for an article, they > > > should ensure that they have the developer / author's permission befo= re > > > quoting them (see previous complaints by brix, ciaranm and others). > > As far as I'm aware this has been taken care of. But with the GWN quite= understaffed it is not easy to get everything done well. > > I'd appreciate some more support from others, but sadly my recruiting > > experiments usually ended after one contribution (for example summary o= f > > the -user ML). >=20 > Which is why I am hoping that by bringing it up elsewhere, someone may > have some ideas of how to recruit people, or just attract people enough > for them to make the occasional contribution.=20 >=20 > > > I also believe that when posting an article or interview, a copy shou= ld > > > be sent to the relevant people to ensure that they are ok with what i= s > > > being posted (my dev of the week interview, for example, was rather > > > screwed up and misrepresentative). > > My fault.=20 >=20 > Ok, thank you. >=20 > > > When someone contacts GWN to have > > > something corrected, it would be appreciated were the GWN staff to at > > > least deign to acknowledge receipt, even if for some reason they choo= se > > > not to honour the corrections or post a retraction (although refusing= to > > > publish corrections is extremely insulting to those wronged). > > The reason for that is that the GWN is mostly sent out by mail. This=20 > > makes corrections a bit more difficult, but I think having a sane polic= y=20 > > for that would be helpful. > >=20 > > > 3. Misinformation, misquotations and outright fabrications. Sure, > > > there's freedom of the press, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse > > > for deliberately making up quotes and printing intentional > > > misinformation. > > I don't know what exactly you are talking about here. But it shouldn't = happen. > >=20 > > > 4. Credit. Care should be taken to ensure that crrect credit is given= . > > Yes.=20 > >=20 > > > From a PR perspective, Gentoo could benefit greatly by better > > > utilisation of the GWN. I believe that as it stands, however, the GWN= is > > > discouraging people from contributing and damaging Gentoo's credibili= ty. > > The problem with the GWN is the lack of reliable useful contributions. > > There was a time when the GWN was ~80% written by me, but that took mor= e > > time than I could afford in the last weeks. >=20 > See, if you spent less time arguing with that elitist bastard Chri... > er, no :P Yes, I think what the GWN needs the most is more hands at the > deck.=20 >=20 > > > Another thing that concerns me is the way the articles are written. I= t > > > is blatanly obvious that the GWN writers are not native English speak= ers > > > as both the grammar and the flow of the articles is far from attracti= ve. > > Help is appreciated :-) > > The GWN has become a german thing, we have jokingly discussed writing i= t > > in german and letting someone translate it to english. >=20 > I don't think thats a bad bad idea, that is, maybe someone could atleast > vamp it up a bit before it goes live.=20 >=20 > > > Having read through the archives, I notice that there was once a time > > > when the GWN was a great publication, and I would like to think that = it > > > could become great yet again; in its current state, though, it is doi= ng > > > more harm than good. > > Agreed. > >=20 > > > Lack of content and poorly written or incorrect articles are often > > > justified by the GWN team on grounds of overwork and insufficient > > > manpower. When I asked why they were not recruiting, I was informed t= hat > > > no-one has any interest in contributing. > > There's a big difference between one-off articles and continuous > > contribution. Also those that I found most willing to contribute had th= e > > biggest language problems - what we need is support from the native > > speakers. >=20 > Nod. I presume for some contributing weekly is rather difficult (finding > something to write about, finding the time to draft, re-draft, clean, > tidy, send off for feedback, double check, stand on their head etc etc) > however I guess it would be possible to rotate if there was enough > 'freelance editors' on the uh, payroll. >=20 > > > Upon speaking with others, > > > however, I find that this is not the case -- people are interested, b= ut > > > fear (and rightly so) that their work will be edited in such a way th= at > > > it is no longer something with which they want to be associated. > > >=20 > > > Another complaint is that the GWN rejects any writing style which has > > > any degree of character or levity. Any attempt at dececnt writing (th= e > > > kind that would make it into publication in English newspapers or > > > magazines, for example), is met with the claim that "the GWN is not a > > > humorous publication". > > Blame the flamefests of the past. Whenever attempts were made to give > > the GWN more dynamic it was flamed down (because ze german humor is not > > funny! Nein! ;-) ) > > So the consensus was to keep the silly jokes out of the GWN since alway= s > > someone misunderstands or complains. I'd like to have it a bit more > > open, funny, enjoyable ... but there's only so much I can do.=20 >=20 > So, what brought on the "This is not a humorous publication" attitude > was infact outsiders rather than the GWN team, as in, it was reactional > rather than a case of you guys just deciding fun was bad?=20 >=20 > > > I would like to see discussion about the way the GWN is > > > (mis)representing Gentoo, how we can better actualise its full potent= ial > > > and what can be done to address the concerns listed above.=20 > > Sounds good. I hope at some point Ulrich responds. >=20 > I hope so too, I also hope that anyone who may have some ideas will > speak up rather than everyone just telling me how horrible I am for > bringing these issues up! :) >=20 > > Thanks for bringing this up, >=20 > Thank you for pointing some of them out. >=20 --=-kuqw/1hwmg/dgAOywvmL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEjDwO0WARHgC5cN0RAtqbAKCCmwIF+TSW377vhTtPGkly6gkUEACfcC8c 7fX2VV/13N2iNPY/o00prXc= =sMoe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-kuqw/1hwmg/dgAOywvmL-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list