[gentoo-dev] who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[gentoo-dev] who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Jürgen Schinker]

how ca i make sure that i am informed earlier about such changes?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Stefan Schweizer]

On 3/31/06, Jürgen Schinker <ba1020@homie.homelinux.net> wrote:
>
> how ca i make sure that i am informed earlier about such changes?
>
when has it been renamed exactly, any specific versions?

For rp-pppoe I can tell you that it has been deprecated in favour of
ppp doing the same job.
Have a look at /etc/conf.d/net:

# ADSL
# For ADSL support, emerge net-dialup/rp-pppoe
# WARNING: This ADSL module is being deprecated in favour of the PPP module
# above.

I added gwn-feedback to CC
Maybe gwn is interested in informing gentoo users about this change
and the deprecation of rp-pppoe, which has already happened some itme
ago?

- Stefan

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Re: [gentoo-dev] who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Patrick Lauer]

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On Fri, 2006-03-31 at 13:26 +0200, Jürgen Schinker wrote:
> how ca i make sure that i am informed earlier about such changes?

Hi Juergen,

I haven't seen this myself yet, searching on bugs.gentoo.org hasn't
shown me any known bugs.
I assume you are talking about the net-dialup/rp-pppoe package - since
you don't mention that in your email it's not easy to know what exactly
happened there. In fact, your email is one of the less helpful ways of
communicating a problem. Next time when you have a problem please try to
describe it in detail, then we don't have to guess and can help you much
better.

The gentoo-dev mailinglist is not used for "small" bug discussion, the
mail volume would be prohibitive. bugs.gentoo.org and IRC (#gentoo,
#gentoo-bugs on irc.freenode.net) are usually much better for finding
help. 

The best way to find out about changes would be reading the Changelogs
provided by all Gentoo ebuilds. Usually disruptive changes are described
there, so if you read the Changelog before updating you should be safe.
Often changes are announced in the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter, the forums
may also be useful.

Some time ago we had a discussion about the problem of getting updates
to users - you should be able to find it in the archives (dir.gmane.org
and marc.theaimsgroup.com (?) have a web-interface for just that).


Hope that helps,

Patrick
-- 
Stand still, and let the rest of the universe move

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Re: [gentoo-dev] who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Alin Nastac]

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Stefan Schweizer wrote:

>On 3/31/06, Jürgen Schinker <ba1020@homie.homelinux.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>how ca i make sure that i am informed earlier about such changes?
>>
>>    
>>
>when has it been renamed exactly, any specific versions?
>  
>
Upstream changed that in version 3.6. There is a warning about the
renamed scripts in pkg_postinst.
baselayout rp-pppoe module has been updated before unmasking this version.

>For rp-pppoe I can tell you that it has been deprecated in favour of
>ppp doing the same job.
>  
>
It is not deprecated yet, at least not until baselayout-1.12 become stable.
On that happy event, ppp-2.4.3 will also be marked as stable.


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[gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Sven Köhler]

> how ca i make sure that i am informed earlier about such changes?

While you wee emerging rp-pppe, there was a message on the screen that
informed your about that.

But it didn't inform you, that there is no new /etc/init.d-script
anymore, any your know have to use /etc/conf.d/net.

I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds, but well: i
still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Jakub Moc]

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Sven Köhler wrote:
> I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds, but well: i
> still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.

May I suggest reading the fine handbook?

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_chap4


-- 

jakub




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[gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Sven Köhler]

>> I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds, but well: i
>> still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.
> 
> May I suggest reading the fine handbook?
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_chap4

RTFM - that's always a good hint - but how often and when do i have to
RTFM? and if i read it today and already read it yesterday, then what
changed since yesterday?

Somehow i always get to know the changes, but it's hard to follow!
That's all i'm saying - and in addition, there is the old "messages
printed by the ebuilds scroll by and are read by almost nobody"-thing
that was partly improved by some tools that record those messages (which
IMHO is not satisfying, because i'd like to see some special mechanism
so that the writer of the ebuild can notify root of some tasks that have
to be performed)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Mike Frysinger]

On Friday 31 March 2006 18:15, Sven Köhler wrote:
> >> I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds, but well: i
> >> still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.
> >
> > May I suggest reading the fine handbook?
> > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_
> >chap4
>
> RTFM - that's always a good hint - but how often and when do i have to
> RTFM?

if some had their way, you'd RTFM everytime you had a question ... but really 
that's not realistic by any stretch
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Philip Webb]

060331 Jakub Moc wrote:
> Sven Köhler wrote:
>> I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds:
>> i still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.
> May I suggest reading the fine handbook?
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_chap4

Yes, it's beautiful,
but it doesn't tell you in which file to enter the lines :

  config_eth0=( "adsl" )
  adsl_user_eth0="username"

Where do you put them ?  And yes, I have had a look in  /etc/ppp
& all I can see is  pppoe.conf , which doesn't look like that.
I handled the change by editing  /etc/init.d/rp-pppoe , which now says :

  depend() {
        use net
        before ntpd
        after domainname
  }

  start() {
        ebegin "Starting pppoe (adsl)"
        start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --exec /usr/sbin/pppoe-start
        eend $?
  }

  stop() {
        ebegin "Stopping pppoe (adsl)"
        start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --exec /usr/sbin/pppoe-stop
        eend $?
  }

and my machine connects to the Internet correctly at every boot.

Really, this change has not been adequately documented or publicised:
that does happen sometimes, but when it does, it needs attention.

Thanks as always to the devs for their volunteer work.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Mike Frysinger]

On Friday 31 March 2006 20:56, Philip Webb wrote:
> 060331 Jakub Moc wrote:
> > Sven Köhler wrote:
> >> I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds:
> >> i still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.
> >
> > May I suggest reading the fine handbook?
> > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_
> >chap4
>
> Yes, it's beautiful,
> but it doesn't tell you in which file to enter the lines :
>
>   config_eth0=( "adsl" )
>   adsl_user_eth0="username"

if you think about it logically, /etc/conf.d/net is the only place it fits
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Sven Köhler]

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>> May I suggest reading the fine handbook?
>> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_chap4
> 
> Yes, it's beautiful,
> but it doesn't tell you in which file to enter the lines :
> 
>   config_eth0=( "adsl" )
>   adsl_user_eth0="username"
> 
> Where do you put them ?  And yes, I have had a look in  /etc/ppp
> & all I can see is  pppoe.conf , which doesn't look like that.

Well, that's obvious, at least to me:
/etc/conf.d/net



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Roy Marples]

On Saturday 01 April 2006 02:56, Philip Webb wrote:
> 060331 Jakub Moc wrote:
> > Sven Köhler wrote:
> >> I don't when the init.d-script disappeared from the ebuilds:
> >> i still used it and didn't know about the baselayout-support for pppoe.
> >
> > May I suggest reading the fine handbook?
> > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3#doc_
> >chap4
>
> Yes, it's beautiful,
> but it doesn't tell you in which file to enter the lines :
>

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=1#doc_chap1

Same bat handbook, but bat chapter 1

This sample paragraph stands out

"Gentoo's RC system now knows about that interface. It also needs to know how 
to configure the new interface. All the network interfaces are configured 
in /etc/conf.d/net"

So yes it does.

Also, /etc/conf.d/net.example is a dead giveaway for maybe /etc/conf.d/net?

Nah, too obvious.

Thanks

Roy

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Philip Webb]

060401 Roy Marples wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=1#doc_chap1

-- useful advice snipped --

Thanks for the pointers: I will look into configuring ADSL that way.

It is debatable whether users whose systems are already working properly
should be expected to read sections of the Handbook
merely in order to accommodate a newly-introduced form of configuration
or whether some brief note in the emerge output or in GWN
would be a better way of alerting them to such changes,
but we all have other things to do today & I won't take it further.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Alin Nastac]

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Philip Webb wrote:

>It is debatable whether users whose systems are already working properly
>should be expected to read sections of the Handbook
>merely in order to accommodate a newly-introduced form of configuration
>or whether some brief note in the emerge output or in GWN
>would be a better way of alerting them to such changes,
>but we all have other things to do today & I won't take it further.
>
>  
>
Well, I could bail out in pkg_setup if /etc/init.d/rp-pppoe script still
exist. However, these kind of discussions shouldn't be here, but in bugzie.
Btw, the change was made 9+ months ago:
...
  21 Jun 2005; Alin Nastac <mrness@gentoo.org> -files/rp-pppoe.rc,
  rp-pppoe-3.5-r11.ebuild:
  Remove the rp-pppoe init script. The new way of using rp-pppoe is through
  adsl net module of the baselayout-1.11.12-r4.
...


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Curtis Napier]

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Alin Nastac wrote:
> Philip Webb wrote:
> 
>> It is debatable whether users whose systems are already working properly
>> should be expected to read sections of the Handbook
>> merely in order to accommodate a newly-introduced form of configuration
>> or whether some brief note in the emerge output or in GWN
>> would be a better way of alerting them to such changes,
>> but we all have other things to do today & I won't take it further.
>>
>>  
>>
> Well, I could bail out in pkg_setup if /etc/init.d/rp-pppoe script still
> exist. However, these kind of discussions shouldn't be here, but in bugzie.
> Btw, the change was made 9+ months ago:
> ...
>   21 Jun 2005; Alin Nastac <mrness@gentoo.org> -files/rp-pppoe.rc,
>   rp-pppoe-3.5-r11.ebuild:
>   Remove the rp-pppoe init script. The new way of using rp-pppoe is through
>   adsl net module of the baselayout-1.11.12-r4.
> ...
> 

And that change was duly noted and acted upon by almost everyone. We had
several threads in the forums plus the einfo warnings. Most people made
the transition without any problems. Good work on the adsl mrness, it
works so much better than rp-pppoe now, thanks!

--curtis119


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: who renamed adsl-start to pppoe-start and why

[Alin Nastac]

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Curtis Napier wrote:

>And that change was duly noted and acted upon by almost everyone. We had
>several threads in the forums plus the einfo warnings. Most people made
>the transition without any problems. Good work on the adsl mrness, it
>works so much better than rp-pppoe now, thanks!
>  
>

Thank you for your kind words, but I didn't contribute anything to the
adsl baselayout module (or if I did, I don't remember). ;-)

I am the main contributor to the ppp module available in
baselayout-1.12*, which support any kind of PPP link known to mankind.
I strongly believe this module support for PPPoE is better than rp-pppoe
from the Gentoo point of view, but unfortunately baselayout-1.12 isn't
stable yet. :-(

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