From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EuVeR-0005fQ-K7 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:59:36 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k05DwTwQ025619; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:58:29 GMT Received: from smtp03.gnvlscdb.sys.nuvox.net (smtp.nuvox.net [64.89.70.9]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k05DtCH4017110 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:55:12 GMT Received: from cgianelloni.nuvox.net (216.215.202.4.nw.nuvox.net [216.215.202.4]) by smtp03.gnvlscdb.sys.nuvox.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id k05DtabZ013688 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:55:36 -0500 Received: by cgianelloni.nuvox.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:52:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January From: Chris Gianelloni To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <200601042205.52361.cshields@gentoo.org> References: <43B96D6D.8080107@gentoo.org> <20060105043130.GI1967@mail.lieber.org> <43BCB0F9.5000505@egr.msu.edu> <200601042205.52361.cshields@gentoo.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-F+9jZAyIJZi77RhIrkSY" Organization: Gentoo Linux Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:52:45 -0500 Message-Id: <1136469165.14859.8.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2.1 X-Archives-Salt: 5978fdcc-0797-4916-9313-767e4b9ced0f X-Archives-Hash: 5d1a10576c5cda93e87140de1870654c --=-F+9jZAyIJZi77RhIrkSY Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 22:05 -0800, Corey Shields wrote: > Where is the centralized vision that everyone is working together here th= at=20 > people not directly related to each project will buy in to and therefore = do=20 > what they can to see it succeed? Where is the collaboration between grou= ps=20 > to make it happen? I think this has already been hashed out enough, but = your=20 > points can be drawn back to that. Portage team is running in one directi= on,=20 > webapps another, GLI a third direction (while kicking anyone who wishes t= o=20 > run with them in the nuts). In any structured environment I have worked = in,=20 > you have a heirarchy where everyone, down to the grunts, know where they = are=20 > heading as an organization, why they are heading that way, and what they = can=20 > do to help. Even though groups work on differing things, they know how t= hose=20 > things are directly affecting the end goal (mission statement, whatever) Here's what I find funny. I work on a project whose main goal is to work with the other projects to get our releases out the door. We coordinate with *every* arch team, along with hardened, embedded, and infrastructure. We coordinate with many herds and the portage team. What exactly would adding some level of indirection via "middle management" or even some "CEO" add us? Not a thing. All it would do is add one giant bottleneck to our work, reducing productivity. > Right now, Gentoo has it's cliques that come up with their own things, an= d to=20 > get assistance from another clique you're gonna have to have some ties or= =20 > work real hard to sell your idea to them. It's too flat of a model to wo= rk=20 > for any real innovation, else, as Kurt pointed out, we would have seen so= me=20 > cool stuff in the past couple of years. ...or just ask nicely. It's amazing how people really downplay the powerful nature of civility. > > If this Gentoo project fails/falters (like you seem to think it is > > heading) you are free to do the same, form your own project with it's > > own set of rules and leader if you so choose. >=20 > Gentoo won't fail.. I don't believe that is what Kurt or Lance are sayin= g. I=20 > think the point was that Gentoo is not moving at the typical pace of OSS=20 > development, and we believe that it is the organizational structure that = is=20 > holding it back. Who exactly are you comparing us to here? Mozilla? Gnome? KDE? I see tons of claims but no examples. Show me the numbers. Not to mention we *just* reorganized. The Council has had how many meetings now? How exactly can you tell the capability of a structure that hasn't even been in existence long enough to have any valid data to compare against? --=20 Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux --=-F+9jZAyIJZi77RhIrkSY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBDvSStkT4lNIS36YERArG4AJ4qJwVFMPG636VQ4d9fB8dH/JpnPwCdEGgT 5NozShUWcSWdlJUbVgCm9mY= =2a12 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-F+9jZAyIJZi77RhIrkSY-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list