From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EtW6c-0003Cr-ES for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:16:34 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k02KEpsL023084; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:14:51 GMT Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [134.68.220.30]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k02KCBUE004250 for <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:12:11 GMT Received: from dslb-084-063-029-118.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.63.29.118] helo=[10.0.0.13]) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.54) id 1EtW2N-00025K-9j for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:12:11 +0000 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January From: Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <20060102194954.GB7125@gentoo.org> References: <200601011053.k01ArjOh019213@robin.gentoo.org> <43B96D6D.8080107@gentoo.org> <1136226795.8779.10.camel@localhost> <43B975FD.1000401@gentoo.org> <1136228634.23404.125.camel@localhost> <20060102194954.GB7125@gentoo.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-y1SEyNjDxS8WUNmOXLvH" Organization: Gentoo Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:12:03 +0100 Message-Id: <1136232723.23404.154.camel@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev+help@gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+unsubscribe@gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev+subscribe@gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 X-Archives-Salt: 24e3bb3f-65b0-4a7d-a30e-4a50ec90bb65 X-Archives-Hash: 9afef55b8d22f538e1cd6fc545afb5ac --=-y1SEyNjDxS8WUNmOXLvH Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 20:49 +0100, Grobian wrote: > On 02-01-2006 20:03:54 +0100, Patrick Lauer wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 12:50 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: > > > I guess I'm almost hinting at that Gentoo needs a single entity that'= s > > > sole purpose is to drive/research the direction and goals for Gentoo. > Or call it proper hierarchy. Management. Probably all evil words, in > this context, but they for sure apply. Well ... it's like every dev has a special title - Gentoo/MIPS gcc senior i= ntegration specialist and stuff like that ;-) Doesn't resolve the communication / hierarchy issues, but makes us all feel warm and fuzzy inside. (I know I'm a bit evil here, but ...) what I think is needed is more communication. Not more "discussing", trolling, yelling etc. etc. but general info. Quite some time ago I tried to get some info from all subprojects what they had been doing - security and docs replied, then a bit later I think Alt and Toolchain gave a short "we're not dead yet". If all projectss could agree to deliver a "mission statement", progress report or whatever you wish to call it every $TIMEUNIT (3 months? 6 months?) it'd be really nice ... (and would make the GWN really exciting *nudge nudge wink wink*) > If it isn't one person, then you would need to find two persons or even > more that are completely aligned and have the same visions. Since > leaders usually are charismatic and controversial where necessary to > achieve their goals, it is hard to find two that don't get conflicts, > stalling any vision to become a mission. To extrapolate from that ... council etc. are incapable of doing "real work= "? ;-) Or in other words, a person is smart, people are dumb > > After all there is noone capable of forcing anyone to do anything as fa= r > > as I can tell - worst case you fork Gentoo (again) and don't resolve > > the issues. >=20 > ...or only resolve the ones that you care about. Your first sentence > forms the basis of the problem, IMHO. There are ways to get people to do what you want, but they are quite limite= d. For example for QA reasons you can make people fix their ebuilds, but that's about the limit of influence you can have right now. > Call it "bureaucrazy", or whatever you like. I think it has nothing > to do with bureaucracy at all. It's just a matter of having > communication on a high level, in order to get an overall view of > Gentoo. IIRC this is one of the tasks of the council, to align teams > somehow, for example. I don't know if the council is the right group to get project progress reports collected, but the point stands - communication is good :-)=20 > > ... and you'd burn out a capable person within half a year I think >=20 > Depends on the person. Lance is just putting a lot of Mintzberg and > probably (work) experience on the table to apply it to Gentoo. > But ok, fine, if that's the case, gives a nice refresh rate :) (j/k) <troll> I say we put ciaran first to that job ... </troll> > > > Dunno, maybe I'm the loner here thinking this... >=20 > Well, you're not alone for sure ;) However, the amount of measures to > take, why and what are a bit of an open question to me. I do, however, > share your concerns of a missing 'Mission Statement'. It is a commonly > known problem and primary point of concern (ie. Heene). I guess we should decide on a problem before solving it :-) Is the problem the lack of a mission statement? I don't see the need for that, we all have our own definitions what a Gentoo is and why it's cool. Trying to get that defined will be really tricky (and I predict a smallish flamewar) We already have a mission statement - to produce the best software distribution, ever ;-) Wether it should be Linux only, GNU-based or a metadistribution is a rather touchy subject, so please try to keep the discussion civilized ... wkr, Patrick --=20 Stand still, and let the rest of the universe move --=-y1SEyNjDxS8WUNmOXLvH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2-ecc0.1.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBDuYkTqER3hOUoZM4RAgRmAJ9ICUwuByQkQgSGCDgrJotgXEMW9wCfcNGD OjEbryiHN7Ki3WknIGF7pyU= =71vl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-y1SEyNjDxS8WUNmOXLvH-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list